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My thoughts on all in game stats. - Ben- - Oct 23 2016
First of all why i am making this thread : I have seen many players/admins using specific stats to tell that som1 is cheating, and its simply inaccurate.
RWS (Round Winning Share) : (Warning, im biased against it) A simple way to put it is, whatever ever amount of damage/frags, or bomb plant/defuse/explosion that you do in rounds that your team won / on the total rounds played = RWS. The thing i heavily dislike about RWS (compared to ADR) is that if your team doesnt win the round, you get exactly 0 rws, example : you killed 4 and you do 99 damage to the 5th, your team was way 2 slow on rotate and dropped defuse on accident, your team lost the round and you get 0 rws. Simply put its an individual stats influenced by the collective effort.
It works great when both teams are full of experienced players in an evenly rws distributed match, but in my experience in esea and here it doesnt in pugs in general.
More details from ESEA.net : "RWS, or "average Round Win Shares" was created to represent a player's contribution to overall team success.
RWS player values range from 0.00 to 100.00, a higher number is better than a lower number
Only 100 RWS points (or win shares) total are given out each round, and only to players on the winning team
All players on the losing team receive 0 RWS points for the round.
For rounds that end by one player fragging another, the 100 RWS points are divided among the players on the winning team based on their share of the total damage dealt during the round
Example #1: You do 140 damage and everyone else on your team does 360 damage combined, you would get 28.00 RWS points (140 divided by 500 total damage dealt)
For rounds that end by one player successfully planting (via an explosion) or defusing, the player that completes the objective is given 30 RWS points, and the remaining 70 RWS points are divided among all players based on their share of the total damage dealt during the round
Example #1: You plant the bomb and it explodes, and you do 0 damage and everyone else on your team each does 50 damage, you would get 30.00 RWS points (30 for the successful plant) and everyone else would get 17.50 RWS (70% of 50 damage divided by 200 total damage dealt)
Example #2: You defuse the bomb, and do 100 damage while everyone else on your team each does 50 damage, you would get 53.33 RWS points (30 for the defuse, and 70% of your 100 damage divided by 300 total damage dealt) and everyone else would get 11.67 RWS points (70% of 50 damage divided by 300 total damage dealt)
The RWS value displayed in your profile, and what you are ranked by, is determined by taking all RWS points you've earned playing in Ranked Pug servers and dividing them by your total rounds played"
KDR (Kill/Death Ratio) : Its a good way to know if you're generally a weight on your team shoulders.
You get a ratio below 0,90, you die more then you kill, a 0,90- 1,10 ratio, you die as much then you kill and 1,10+ = you kill more then you die.
It can also tell you if a said player is more aggressive then an other, if both players have similar ADR/FPR, the one having the lower KDR is generally the one being more aggressive.
Plants and Defuses : If you got a lot of plants and defuses, it can influence the RWS stats, so its a good thing to have in mind if someone has a higher rws but a lower adr then you. Also it shows whos not afraid to carry the bomb (which can be a pain when people toss the bomb around), it can also show to some extent who can clutch when bomb is planted either side.
W-T-L (Win-Tie-Lost) : Whatever if you are a good player, a beast or an average player, this can show if you are doing your part in the team effort. Let me explain : each pug = a different team, the main link between the 2 is the individual player you are looking the W-T-L ratio, so if som1 has a very positive ratio of W-T-L hes generally doing its job well (whatever his skill level), same principe but reversed for a negative ratio.
If a good player leaves a lot, it will also influence his W-T-L ratio, https://servers.war-lords.net/pugs/players/2856197 (nothing personal grizoux).
Also id like to point out that, the Tie is only achievable if players leave the pug in masse when there is a tie on the scoreboard, OT's go forever and there is sadly no choice for a simple tie (again my little bias).
Accuracy% : good accuracy obviously shows if you got a good aim or not in general, but is heavily influenced on the type of guns you are using.
gun with shitty damage and not a good accuracy (glock, smgs) = your gonna spam it like a mofo, so acc% will go down
shotguns = the stat is broken, try a pug doing shotgun only your gonna have 80% accuracy easily.
high damage, low ammo and highly precise gun (deagle, awp) = your gonna take your time, so your acc% will go up.
Headshot% : paired with Accuracy% it shows if you got a good aim or not in general, but is also heavily influenced on the type of guns you are using.
gun with shitty damage (glock, smgs) = your gonna aim for head a lot more, try glocking som1 in the chest with an armor.
gun with average damage (p228, p90, m4a1) = your gonna try to aim for head, but the high quantity of ammunition gonna make you not really care for it in close to mid range
shotguns = the stat is again broken, try to play a pug doing shotgun only your gonna have 50% hsp easily
guns with high hamage and short clip (deagle) : your gonna always try to aim for head for a quick 1 tap, deaglers have the highest hsp% all around.
guns with high damage and big clips (ak47, sg) : a far your gonna try somewhat for the head, and close your gonna spray 90% of time. So your hsp% gonna go down.
AWP : its a 1 shot weapon, except in certain situations, you're never going for the head, so if you are an awper your HSP% gonna be heavily affected.
ADR (Average Damage/Round) : (I have a bias in favor of it) It shows the amount of damage you do to enemy players / round. In general, the highest you have the better you are, an average ADR would be around 75, a good ADR around 100 and a very good ADR is above 120. It can somewhat be influenced if you are baiting a lot or not, this is when you need to look up the W-T-L ratio and to a lower extent the RWS of the player. And it is also a lot influenced, if you are an open fragger (the first to enter every damn site), whatever your skill level you are by definition taking more risks, so in general if your not random as fuck, your ADR gonna go down.
I like it more then RWS, simply because it shows what you are doing, its an individual stat it shouldnt be influenced by the collective effort like RWS is
FPR (Frags Per Round) : (I have a bias in favor of it) It shows the amount of enemy players you kill / round, it covers one of the major default of adr, which is that it doesnt show if you actually killed the enemies, this is why i like using those 2 stats together, its a confirmation that the adr is a good adr.
An extreme example of that would be : you do 99 damage to 5 enemies, you get 495 adr that round, but 0 fpr.
Less extreme : you toss a good nade mid in inferno you wound 5 enemies for 40 damage each, you get 200 adr, but still 0 fpr.
If you get a lower ADR then your FPR, it also means you mainly finished already wounded people (95 adr and 1,1 fpr vs 110 adr and 0,95 fpr).
Favorite weapon : I remember in esea you could see every single data on your guns usage would be cool here 2, but even if its more simple here it is also a good indicator. It shows the 1 gun you are using the most, deagle , ak47, awp, (etc.) this is extremely important to keep in mind, when you are watching HSP% or ACC% or both, because they are heavily influenced on what type of guns you are using.
So only use those stats as indicators of a possibility of cheating, when you use multiple stats together and when they are EXTREMELY HIGH :
RWS : if its over 18-20 rws without any hard core gaming/league exp on any game = red flag.
KDR : if its over 1,80-2,00 KDR without any hard core gaming/league exp on any game = red flag.
W-T-L : if its always winning or near to it without any hard core gaming/league exp on any game = red flag (mainly team stack)
Accuracy% : pay attention to guns, but if its over 35% without any hard core gaming/league exp on any game = red flag
Headshot% : pay attention to guns, but if its over 30% without any hard core gamng/league exp on any game = red flag
ADR : if its over 120 adr without any hard core gaming/league exp on any game = red flag
FPR : if its over 1.2 fpr without any hard core gaming/league exp on any game = red flag
Do not forget to use them only as indicators (except extreme case like he has 100% hsp%), do not ban directly without evidence of cheating.
If you guys wants to add anything on the subject feel free to post a constructive reply !
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Deadplanet - Oct 23 2016
Good thread, sharing your thoughts.
I wouldn't mind seeing the stats of every single weapon.
Totally agreeing with the problems with rws too, although sometimes it does balance the teams, I see most of the matches today, one team is always getting destroyed.
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - sosa - Oct 23 2016
I also made the suggestion to bison yesterday to be able to see personal stats for every single weapon, that would be great. Good thread, I have seen a lot of people asking questions that you answer here.
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Ben- - Oct 25 2016
I'm thinking about making an other thread about pros and cons of different guns and/or one about in-game cash management strategies.
Anyone interested about those subjects ?
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Crusader - Oct 26 2016
(Oct 25 2016, 04:28 PM)Ben- Wrote: I'm thinking about making an other thread about pros and cons of different guns and/or one about in-game cash management strategies.
Anyone interested about those subjects ?
It will be great if you could share your experience on such things
Waiting eagerly for the next thread....
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Kobe - Oct 26 2016
Ben LOVES RWS lmao
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Juniorc4 - Oct 26 2016
to much to read
please simplify it into 50 words or less
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - M. Bison - Oct 27 2016
(Oct 23 2016, 10:09 PM)Deadplanet Wrote: Totally agreeing with the problems with rws too, although sometimes it does balance the teams, I see most of the matches today, one team is always getting destroyed.
The RWS balancing is somewhat successful. ~2/3 of pugs end with a score of at least 09-16 or better. A few years ago, I compared ADR vs RWS in predicting the final PUG's score and ADR was less accurate. A review of a couple of blowouts suggest they are caused by high RWS people leaving or joining teams. Another big factor is the map.
15-15 8.4% (887/10508)
14-16 9.4% (993/10508)
13-16 9.3% (976/10508)
12-16 9.4% (988/10508)
11-16 9.0% (944/10508)
10-16 8.6% (900/10508)
09-16 8.2% (863/10508)
08-16 7.5% (792/10508)
07-16 7.1% (749/10508)
06-16 6.3% (665/10508)
05-16 5.4% (567/10508)
04-16 4.1% (435/10508)
03-16 3.2% (336/10508)
02-16 2.2% (230/10508)
01-16 0.9% (097/10508)
00-16 0.2% (024/10508)
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Ben- - Oct 27 2016
(Oct 27 2016, 08:38 PM)M. Bison Wrote:(Oct 23 2016, 10:09 PM)Deadplanet Wrote: Totally agreeing with the problems with rws too, although sometimes it does balance the teams, I see most of the matches today, one team is always getting destroyed.
The RWS balancing is somewhat successful. ~2/3 of pugs end with a score of at least 09-16 or better. A few years ago, I compared ADR vs RWS in predicting the final PUG's score and ADR was less accurate. A review of a couple of blowouts suggest they are caused by high RWS people leaving or joining teams. Another big factor is the map.
15-15 8.4% (887/10508)
14-16 9.4% (993/10508)
13-16 9.3% (976/10508)
12-16 9.4% (988/10508)
11-16 9.0% (944/10508)
10-16 8.6% (900/10508)
09-16 8.2% (863/10508)
08-16 7.5% (792/10508)
07-16 7.1% (749/10508)
06-16 6.3% (665/10508)
05-16 5.4% (567/10508)
04-16 4.1% (435/10508)
03-16 3.2% (336/10508)
02-16 2.2% (230/10508)
01-16 0.9% (097/10508)
00-16 0.2% (024/10508)
But keep in mind, that the teams in those pugs were made based on RWS, so just taking adr instead to see if its more accurate when the teams are made with RWS and not adr, certainly gonna show RWS being more accurate, they aren't made using adr ...
But yeah i agree on what you said, high RWS players are a bit unpredictable, meaning RWS or ADR being used doesnt really matter, even more if they leave or join out of nowhere to stack teams up.
Also keep in mind that there is always leavers/multiples subs, in every pug, so if the score ends up between 15-15 or 16-8 doesnt mean RWS is doing it job, those subs, except if a high rws leaves, balance the score most of the time, the teams made at the beginning with rws are often 100% unfair before subs evens them out.
RE: My thoughts on all in game stats. - Ben- - Oct 28 2016
Just made a mostly shotgun only pug to show what it does to accuracy.
https://servers.war-lords.net/pugs/47780