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+--- Thread: (wL) Competitive Rant/POV (/thread-17085.html)
(wL) Competitive Rant/POV - Ben- - Nov 19 2017
For starters, i aint root admin, nor am i a senior admin, or a server admin or even a moderator. I am by no mean an authority in anything here. I'm retired, don't really play here/on source anymore and i am far from being a beast on the game. That being said.
If we want tournaments to be enjoyable/working on (wL), it needs some work that can't be done by non-staff people like me or Caillou, or anyone else who would want to organize something. And can't be done by server admins either.
First of all
1 : People don't show up, whatever if the schedules are planned between teams, or imposed by the organizer, or freaking voted, some people simply do not show up to matches. Which means their team is playing either with 2 subs, in 4vs5 or forfeit (90% of time). Which sucks for the handicaped team for obvious reasons, for the team facing them because they dont have a real match to prepare for the next ones and for everyone in general, because the more teams are forfeiting because people don't care, the less people will care and forfeit's will only increase from tournaments to tournaments (like we are experimenting right now).
1.1 : Delays in matches :
- Our fifth is coming, hes online, give us a minute ! ....... 40 mins later ...... he had to restart his pc ... .give us 2 mins .....
"- People got confused with the timeline they thought it was in 1 hour ....
- Our 5th is finishing a match in csgo ....
- He's coming home from work ... (why schedule when he cant play #facepalm)"
Whatever other type of excuses .... it should be irrelevant, aint there at said time ?
Forfeit. These are tournaments, 1 delay on 1 match and you delay all the other matches.
2 : These aren't real teams (1 of the reasons, point 1 exists), there was only 2 teams that sticked together from the first (wL) tournament to the last, 1 of these teams is dead (Gabe's) and the other 1 more or less swapped game (mine). That's an other reason people dont bother showing up, these aren't real teams that you practiced/scrimmed with for weeks to get better to the game, to participate in tourneys/league. These teams are based on 1 style of gaming, PUGS, there is little to no consequences for not showing up (like your teamate being angry at you, or you throwing 10$ out of the window).
Basically : People indirectly treat these like Pugs, because THEY ARE PUGS.
3 : Tournaments are a product stuck in developement hell :
Outside of changing the format a couple times, what was made to actually make the tournaments roll better ?
We don't keep track of players behaviors (like not showing up, or rquing in a match, or being a shit captain).
- Which could help prevent such things happening again (by not letting that guy being captains, or simply not letting toxic people participate anymore).
We still dont have separated stats from pug stats.
- Which is ridiculous since they are 2 completely different playstyle, it would be like if we didnt separate pugs from pubs stats. Or have the same stats for gungames and deathmatches.
We don't have a special title like tournaments organizers, that could give access to hidden threads (like banned people), or about tournaments formats, or about else.
- Which would be 100000 times more simple for people to organize stuff if it was a thing, since they would have access to intel on what worked and what didn't from the get go (and not repeating the same mistakes and less chances of making new 1's). And being able to discuss those seriously, without non-organizers interventions (admins or players).
We need a better way to publicize the tournaments, maybe automatic messages within the servers, because a lot of people dont pay attention to anything steam group related, spamming for a week in servers isnt efficient and making threads here where maybe 15% of the players come from time to time, simply do not work.
There should also be some kind competitive profile on this website, historic of teams with records and ending position. Teams needs to be "supported" by the website, there is little to not interests in making scrims, because teams aren't kept alive in between tournaments.
- We could do like ESEA and make it possible to join/leave teams on the website, see what other teams are still active/willing to play and organize scrims from that point on
- We could also organize mini-leagues like ESEA, but all the points previously mentionned would need to be adressed, ASAP
- Or simply make it a thing, that every week, there is a comp event, 4 teams, first come first served policy, drafts or not, and have fun with that. But again, everything else and more needs to be done to make it a thing.
Anyways, that was just my rant, ive lost interests in playings pugs. So swapped game (or trying to)
Scrims, Tournaments, Leagues are 1000 times more fun in my opinion, but for these to be a thing, we need to make at least these changes to our formula. Otherwise were gonna go from fuck ups to fuck ups like we are currently doing, lose interest and simply stop playing these (from 16 teams on the first 1, to 6 teams atm, with 2-3 teams not showing up at all).
I'll reply later on stuff that i forgot instead of editing.
RE: (wL) Competitive Rant/POV - _nme - Nov 21 2017
The problem is, not allowing people to create teams, and giving them 2 weeks to set up their schedules. That's where it fell appart.
RE: (wL) Competitive Rant/POV - woKe - Nov 22 2017
I think one option to do a wL competitive event that isn't a tournament is to do a ladder. Ladder's are nice because they don't have to operate on a schedule, teams can just challenge each other and then coordinate between themselves when everyone can play a match, and then we can have ladder admins who they report the results to. Anyone can sign up a team or join a team, but you can only be on one team at a time and you lose your ladder position and have to start over if you lose more than 2 of 5 starters or something like that.
I think a ladder would be a lot easier to schedule, and would allow for a longer time-frame of playing, so players who only play on wL occasionally will be better able to participate enabling a bigger player pool. If one team gets together at the top of the ladder then its up to the rest of the wL community to put a team together that can beat them. If we want more parity or equity we could have an rws cap on starting 5 or make some requirement that each team has to start 1-2 low rws players
RE: (wL) Competitive Rant/POV - Ben- - Nov 22 2017
(Nov 22 2017, 04:21 PM)woKe Wrote: I think one option to do a wL competitive event that isn't a tournament is to do a ladder. Ladder's are nice because they don't have to operate on a schedule, teams can just challenge each other and then coordinate between themselves when everyone can play a match, and then we can have ladder admins who they report the results to. Anyone can sign up a team or join a team, but you can only be on one team at a time and you lose your ladder position and have to start over if you lose more than 2 of 5 starters or something like that.
I think a ladder would be a lot easier to schedule, and would allow for a longer time-frame of playing, so players who only play on wL occasionally will be better able to participate enabling a bigger player pool. If one team gets together at the top of the ladder then its up to the rest of the wL community to put a team together that can beat them. If we want more parity or equity we could have an rws cap on starting 5 or make some requirement that each team has to start 1-2 low rws players
I like the idea of a ladder, it would still need most of what was previously mentionned to be working fine, separated stats, teams to be supported by the website, etc. I just fear that i will end up like the 10 rws server if we dont support it adequately, a good idea on paper, but empty once online.
I'm not a fan of "equity", any form ive seen isn't fair to the individuals, that either want to play with their friends, or don't wanna play with x players, i think the liberty of chosing with who you are playing makes ladders, tournament, leagues, so much more enjoyable then pugs.