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Seeing as there are 0 established rules for the server that PLAYERS can see, there is obvious room for problems.

As evidenced by a current ongoing situation, members not aware of any server rules can severely dampen a server's reputation, especially when said "rules" are sporadically enforced.

Establishing a set of server rules that can be easily viewed by the entire gaming community in the MOTD would certainly nullify any potential miscommunications that could arise if a person was banned.

Note: I'm speaking of server rules that can be viewed by PLAYERS, not just ADMINS.

I actually agree with this. I have had to ask a few times about what kind of stance you guys take on certain things, just because I didn't know the rules or anything.

But saying that, I also have common sense, so I don't go around doing what Kittens did and then play ignorant. Yeah, we do need a viewable set of rules on the forums and possibly the server (or a link on the MOTD that says "rules viewable 'URL' here, it's your responsibility to read these before playing on the server, and we assume that by playing on our servers, you have fully read and understood the rules". Common sense should prevail though.

Yeah agree with rival we need rules but common sense is needed too!
Like i said before i wont go to peoples house and start trolling because i kniw its wrong just because i think is funny! Everybody know what its wrong and not cool if you dont like to u dont do to others, this is a game community were everybody comes to play and enjoy the time not to being trolled by a strnger!!

What you guys don't seem to get is that "common sense" is not enough to justify the banning of an individual.

There is no such thing as "common sense" when it comes to comments made online in virtual gaming, or in internet forums such as 4chan, as you so aptly mentioned Rival.

Most servers are run on CS:Source with a codified set of rules. These rules state certain things are ok and not ok in order to clear up any confusion that may arise from players jumping from server to server, where things that are allowed in one server may not be allowed in another (For instance, language that may be allowed in one server but not in another).

"Common sense" cannot be used as a guiding signpost for players and their conduct in the server. The room for misinterpretation is too high, by admins and players alike.

This is a serious problem that needs looking into.

SOMANYKITTENS Wrote:What you guys don't seem to get is that "common sense" is not enough to justify the banning of an individual.

Pretty sure that the server owners can choose to ban whoever they want, for whatever they want. They just use a moral compass to decide what should and shouldn't be allowed on their servers. The key here being that they own the server. If you came over to my house, and start messing stuff up, I am pretty sure I would be allowed to kick you out without having to point out a list of rules on the wall. You're just in a flurry because you were banned for being racist.

SOMANYKITTENS Wrote:There is no such thing as "common sense" when it comes to comments made online in virtual gaming, or in internet forums such as 4chan, as you so aptly mentioned Rival.

I have seen your chat logs. I would understand if you were saying other things besides the comments that you did make. Sure, every once in a while I will curse at another player on the server, but a lot of the chat I do is tactical, or just social. You're chat log, on the other hand, was just back to back profanity. So sure, comments made in virtual gaming don't have much common sense to them, but there are times when you just have to think "Is all this cursing really necessary? Do I need to be spamming the chat box with racist remarks, to try and get a laugh?". The answer is no.

4chan is different. There are a lot worse things that go on there than swearing. It's full of people who obviously weren't told that they were loved enough when they were younger. They use anonymity to take out their inner hatred, or just to troll. Either way, it's the toilet of the internet. This place isn't 4chan, and for a good reason. It's because people here are more of a community. We know each other, and we are friendly to one another. If 4chan had user info, it would be a completely different place.

SOMANYKITTENS Wrote:Most servers are run on CS:Source with a codified set of rules. These rules state certain things are ok and not ok in order to clear up any confusion that may arise from players jumping from server to server, where things that are allowed in one server may not be allowed in another (For instance, language that may be allowed in one server but not in another).

Sure, the most difference between servers would be that profanity is allowed. That's the only common difference between servers that you could claim. Things like racism being allowed, hacking being allowed, mic spamming being allowed, all those things are only acceptable on an extremely small percentage of servers. It's not 50/50. You can't claim "Oh I have been to a ton of servers that let me call people horrible derogatory terms", because that's just not true. If that's what you want from a server, then why not just go to those servers? I know it's a bit lame to say it, but if you don't like the way the server is run, there are thousands out there for you to choose from.

SOMANYKITTENS Wrote:"Common sense" cannot be used as a guiding signpost for players and their conduct in the server. The room for misinterpretation is too high, by admins and players alike.

This is a serious problem that needs looking into.

But I use common sense in the servers all the time. Maybe it's just the way I was conditioned when I was a young lad, but I use common sense every single day. Sure, I get so stoned that I am clinically dead, but I can still fathom what's acceptable on a mass scale. I mean surely things like "Don't be racist" apply to pretty much everyone, whether it's in a game or not.


After all of that, I do agree that some rules and guidelines should be available for everybody to read. But I do think that it's pathetic that you can't seem to figure out that certain things are just not acceptable to say. Just saying.

I, The Rival Wrote:Pretty sure that the server owners can choose to ban whoever they want, for whatever they want. They just use a moral compass to decide what should and shouldn't be allowed on their servers. The key here being that they own the server. If you came over to my house, and start messing stuff up, I am pretty sure I would be allowed to kick you out without having to point out a list of rules on the wall.

My point exactly. Individual server owners dictate different rules on each server. There is no overarching set of rules that exist that comprise "acceptable" gaming behavior. It is entirely within war lords' right to completely ban me for eternity, and then make it their utmost goal that I never succeed in joining a server owned by them again. However, due to war-lords' legitimacy in running multiple popular game servers, and a website with admins devoted to ensuring a gaming experience free of hackers, it seems odd that there is no set of codified rules, which exist for the very purpose of eliminating any grey area there may be for individuals playing within a server.

To break it down more simply for you, Rival, if you were to play in a CS:S server and use certain commentary over the course of a few months with admin present, and NEVER face a warning, would you feel that you were allowed to further use that commentary? (Disregard the fact that it may be "racist" in your eyes, focus on the fact that there were NO warnings for using it).

I, The Rival Wrote:You're just in a flurry because you were banned for being racist.

Just because I may have used some of those terms does not mean I am a racist. Do I show disdain for or superiority over an entire race of individuals because of my use of a term in a joking manner? No, and I harbor no such views towards those who are different than myself.

I, The Rival Wrote:I have seen your chat logs. I would understand if you were saying other things besides the comments that you did make. Sure, every once in a while I will curse at another player on the server, but a lot of the chat I do is tactical, or just social. You're chat log, on the other hand, was just back to back profanity. So sure, comments made in virtual gaming don't have much common sense to them, but there are times when you just have to think "Is all this cursing really necessary? Do I need to be spamming the chat box with racist remarks, to try and get a laugh?". The answer is no.

4chan is different. There are a lot worse things that go on there than swearing. It's full of people who obviously weren't told that they were loved enough when they were younger. They use anonymity to take out their inner hatred, or just to troll. Either way, it's the toilet of the internet. This place isn't 4chan, and for a good reason. It's because people here are more of a community. We know each other, and we are friendly to one another. If 4chan had user info, it would be a completely different place.

I conduct a majority of my chat by microphone, which many regular pubbers can attest to. Some of the chat that I had typed that may have looked like a constant stream of profanity was interspersed by remarks made by myself via microphone, when I was chatting with other players.

Nevertheless, even IF I had decided to use nothing but the "f" word for my text speech, what would be stopping me? According to the server rules, nothing, as they do not exist.

I, The Rival Wrote:Sure, the most difference between servers would be that profanity is allowed. That's the only common difference between servers that you could claim. Things like racism being allowed, hacking being allowed, mic spamming being allowed, all those things are only acceptable on an extremely small percentage of servers. It's not 50/50. You can't claim "Oh I have been to a ton of servers that let me call people horrible derogatory terms", because that's just not true. If that's what you want from a server, then why not just go to those servers? I know it's a bit lame to say it, but if you don't like the way the server is run, there are thousands out there for you to choose from.

This brings me to my main point. I'm not looking for a server that will allow me to use terms that others may find offensive, I am looking for war-lords.net servers to codify a set of rules to prevent situations such as mine arising again. From the looks of the admin abuse threads and unban request threads, there have been quite a few. It also struck me as a bit odd that the ban rate was so high for the warlord servers 2 and 4 (an entirely different matter). 

Again, refer back to the fact that I have been talking the same way since the day I first started populating Warlords servers, and this was never a problem before today.

I, The Rival Wrote:But I use common sense in the servers all the time. Maybe it's just the way I was conditioned when I was a young lad, but I use common sense every single day. Sure, I get so stoned that I am clinically dead, but I can still fathom what's acceptable on a mass scale. I mean surely things like "Don't be racist" apply to pretty much everyone, whether it's in a game or not.


After all of that, I do agree that some rules and guidelines should be available for everybody to read. But I do think that it's pathetic that you can't seem to figure out that certain things are just not acceptable to say. Just saying.

If I were to use common sense in the manner that you just illustrated it, I would be completely justified in my reasoning for using the terms that I did. Again, refer to my first statement in this post, and you will see that I followed a chain of logic that I established after there were no negative repercussions for using the language in the first place.

Also again, refer to my definition of "racist."

"Common sense" to me when I am in a server consists of two things: Respect the admins, and follow the server rules. I may have personally overstepped my first boundary, and I certainly paid for it, but not according to any codified server rules of conduct. Therein lies the problem that I am trying to fix.

However, my side of the conversation is being undertaken with the firm belief that war-lords is constantly striving to make itself a better gaming community for the individuals that play within it, and whether that means encoding free speech or restricting certain types of speech is entirely up to the admins.


tl;dr Really, lets just get some damn rules on the servers so that there is NO MISCOMMUNICATION AGAIN. What does anyone stand to lose by it? I'll write them up myself if that's what it takes.

Matt is updating the page with most of the rules. I think I'll close this topic as it is no longer relevant.

The general rules are now in the MOTD.