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I understand what you're saying, but my point is, at THAT time, it's only turning away one person, and more likely than not, that person is going to wait to reconnect.

Again, from my experience, popular servers, especially in the early mornings are popular for a reason. People wait to connect so that they can play on that server which only makes it grow in popularity. This is why I don't see a problem, especially if Tea is banning during this time.

Correction, I do have a reserved slot, but I must still wait to connect when the server is full.

Technically, the standard way a reserved slot works is that it will boot the most recently connected player when the server is 42/42.

joker8baller Wrote:I understand what you're saying, but my point is, at THAT time, it's only turning away one person, and more likely than not, that person is going to wait to reconnect.

That person is going to reconnect and get kicked and told that he is in a reserved slot.  He's going to find out that it's more work trying to get into the server and go somewhere else, thus losing a potential regular.  People that have never joined the server before will see that the server is full and not even bother connecting, thus losing a potential regular.  People with the server list filter on to filter out full servers will not even see it, thus losing a potential regular.

joker8baller Wrote:Again, from my experience, popular servers, especially in the early mornings are popular for a reason. People wait to connect so that they can play on that server which only makes it grow in popularity. This is why I don't see a problem, especially if Tea is banning during this time.

I do not see a problem with Mr. Tea in Spectator banning people.  Like I've said at least twice before, this is not the issue.

joker8baller Wrote:Correction, I do have a reserved slot, but I must still wait to connect when the server is full.

Technically, the standard way a reserved slot works is that it will boot the most recently connected player when the server is 42/42.

So you're telling me when I see a server at 42/42, it means the server just hasn't kicked the most recently connected non-reserved slot holder out of the server yet?  Because, from what I've seen, no one, while playing, gets kicked to make room for a reserved slot.  I only notice I get kicked when I try to join at 40+/42 because I joined in a reserved slot.  If the former is false, then you contradicted yourself because, "technically," since you cannot join a server while it's full, no one will get kicked to make room for you.

the point is u can only ever have 21 vs 20 with some1 afk in spec
which is unfair, and u guys are all about fairness

maybe make 43 ppl max ppl allowed in server? and only 21 per team? then an admin can spec all he wants without making teams unbalanced

OwnageHN Wrote:So you're telling me when I see a server at 42/42, it means the server just hasn't kicked the most recently connected non-reserved slot holder out of the server yet?  Because, from what I've seen, no one, while playing, gets kicked to make room for a reserved slot.  I only notice I get kicked when I try to join at 40+/42 because I joined in a reserved slot.  If the former is false, then you contradicted yourself because, "technically," since you cannot join a server while it's full, no one will get kicked to make room for you.

u can join the server now when its 40+/42... i think they removed that

Quote:That person is going to reconnect and get kicked and told that he is in a reserved slot.  He's going to find out that it's more work trying to get into the server and go somewhere else, thus losing a potential regular.  People that have never joined the server before will see that the server is full and not even bother connecting, thus losing a potential regular.  People with the server list filter on to filter out full servers will not even see it, thus losing a potential regular.

This is where I disagree. At the wee hours of the night when Mr. Tea is seemingly AFK, and the server is full, very few servers are populated at that hour, and even less that are available to the non-steam CS:S.

I've been running and admining servers for the past 7 years. I know what it takes to keep a server populated, and especially one throughout the night. From my experience, as I have stated before, having one to two slots taken up by an AFK isn't as much of a big deal as you're making it out to be. In fact, it actually helps a server out. People, at this time, and with the server being 42 shots, like playing in bigger servers. They are willing to wait to connect to such a server because it is popular.

Players aren't quitting because Tea is in spectator, and when Tea does catch and ban a regular for hacking, it's well worth the slot. Even if it takes hours of AFK time for Tea to catch that person, that's one less hacker, and the servers are still full.

Quote:So you're telling me when I see a server at 42/42, it means the server just hasn't kicked the most recently connected non-reserved slot holder out of the server yet?  Because, from what I've seen, no one, while playing, gets kicked to make room for a reserved slot.  I only notice I get kicked when I try to join at 40+/42 because I joined in a reserved slot.  If the former is false, then you contradicted yourself because, "technically," since you cannot join a server while it's full, no one will get kicked to make room for you.

From my understanding of the server, the 41 & 42 slots are reserved slots. If a reserved player (This is quite rare) tries to connect when the 41 & 42 slots are taken, the most recent player in the 42 slot will be kicked. I believe there might even be a "hidden" slot as well which allows for 43/42 players.

I'll state my original point. I don't see why this is a big problem. The servers are still full, and Tea is still catching hackers even if he is AFK at these times. The pattern of regularity of "being afk" lures regulars to believe that he is AFK, and therefore allowing them to be more blatant with their hacks.

In the end, it's just one slot on a 42/42 man server, of which we have 3 42 man slot servers active. Our servers are still full, and people are still having fun. If you want that slot Mr. Tea is in, and the server is full, then that person should donate and receive a reserved slot.

Edit: Zenk. I disagree. In such a large pub, having a 21 v 20 isn't going to magically stack the teams, and it's not a problem you should be concerned with. Should we be concerned when the server is 16 v 15? Is that unfair? Should we not let that 1 person play until they can balance the team's out? The point is valid to a degree, but doesn't hold much weight as it happens often.

You're taking "fairness" too far. Many admins don't bother with making teams fair, and they'll just switch themselves around, rather than other players, or they accept that "getting rolled" is part of the game.

*sigh*

I'm pretty sure this goes along the same lines as what Joker is saying....

And,

I don't know about you, but I’m pretty sure there are an odd number of players in the server just as much as even on any given day when the server is not full. Also as he pointed out, 20v21 has nothing, to do with the teams being stacked. Whichever has the better players who work together, and taking into consideration of what map you are playing on ( If the map is sided towards one or the other )
And,
I have a feeling people are complaining to complain at this point by blowing it way out of proportion.

the 41 and 42 slots arent reserved slots anymore.

At best we're talking 1 or 2 slots, not 20. While I don't feel it really provides much of a deterrant, I do see that regulars would be more likely to get caught when the admin is "generally afk."

Anyway, there's no point in doing anything about a single slot or even two slots (2-4% of the total slots). As such, there's no point in this pointless debate continuing; closed.

Wow.  My gasoline soaked reply caught fire.  ;D A whole page. 
My non-sarcastic response:
If you have problem with Mr.Tea ask Tea. Mr. Tea abides.  If you leave passive-aggressive confrontation post about Tea then he will have fun with it. 

Still, if Mr.Tea does or doesn't do something and you post a thread.  Then everyone and their mom decides to add commentary and get into the head of Mr.Tea.  You won't be able too and you give the Tea more to have fun with it.

Morale of the story- As the wise Rabbid Rabbit once said, "At the very least you could ask nicely of him privately if the server is full and he is not playing to leave the server. No reason to make an entire thread with the title " I think something should be done about this"."

Now I will filter my sarcastic response:

Mr.Tea Wrote:

Rabbit Wrote:At the very least you could ask nicely of him privately if the server is full and he is not playing to leave the server. No reason to make an entire thread with the title " I think something should be done about this".

ask admins politely achieve eas(i)er and greater results.

I agree something needs to be done about this. ;D 
I think it is funny that the way I see this is, by randomly reading a confrontational thread title.

Let me see my inbox to see if I have a message from either one of you....Nope. 

All you had to do is send a message to me, but oh wait that would be easy and non-confrontational.

Next time I'll announce it to the server when I am spectating for a hacker 8)

RESOLVED

How about before we start limiting or anything with Mr.Tea we maybe ask him. Or you can go on a random tangent and speculate what I am doing.  Wow.

Matt Wrote:He should idle in Deathmatch with me .

It's a bug with SRCDS.

No he shouldn't.  Ewwwww.  :-[  I'll be in the perpetually empty Full RotationI could have been straight forward and highlighted this, but that is no fun.

I, The Rival Wrote:I dunno, it's a simple solution really. Just ask Mr Tea Simples

It is since the whole point is not to catch the random hacker. Its the one that I already have rnds of demo's of and know that I am an admin. That's how I caught a few regulars hacking.  I was setting in SPEC for 4hrs and looked at my computer, auto-spectated and caught them when they were complacent with walling.  It's OK I won't do this anymore.  I do dunno it is a simple solution.  Why don't we ask Mr.Tea instead of having a awesome debate about it.

They have found us out. Rabbit and Mr.Tea are one in the same.  I too leave and record or sadly patiently watch the person a map or two depending on what it going on, but once again.  Rabbit brings up a good point.  He would...... :o.....ask me.

Now let me put some ammo near the gasoline soak thread. 
------Spoiler Alert--------
If you have a problem with me, ask me.

Any who, back to page 3 of my thread. :-*

OwnageHN Wrote:From what I've experienced, Mr. Tea leaves his computer on over night while he's asleep.  Note that he cannot check CS:S for hackers while he's asleep.  Also note that the #4 server, the one I see him in Spectator the most, is full during a large portion of this time.

I appreciate Mr. Tea's effort in catching the (undisclosed amount of) regulars cheating.  However, his method, although not completely, is in conflict with the issue at hand.

Method at hand. Isno one voiced a concern. Still checking my pm on steam or inbox on war-lords and nothing. 

Further I have over 240hrs game play in a three month time frame.  That fairly sad and pathetic when I see how I have allocated my free time, but your whooping 48 hrs in 5 months really doesn't put much weight in your analysis.

joker8baller Wrote:I think you guys are making this a big problem then it already is. Regardless of Mr. Tea being AFK or not, he's turning away one person, who will have to wait to connect to the server. It demonstrates the server's popularity and provides incentive for players who want to play here to buy a reserved slot.

It is just one slot. We have 3 other servers, and more importantly 2 popular maps server, they're rarely full at both times.

Having an admin in spec, afk or not, is a deterrent to potential hackers and is helpful.

Again, it's one slot. It's not a big deal, I'm sorry you have to wait to get into a popular server, but hey, if you want to play here, you do what you have to do.

Damn...Reasonable.

OwnageHN Wrote:

joker8baller Wrote:It does only turn away that one person that tries to connect. At the wee hours of the morning, it is useful to have a hard to get into server as people will typically wait to connect to that server. If the server is continuing to remain full, as it has, I still don't see a problem with it.

The reserved slots vary, I'm not quite sure how it works as I do not have one, and I do have to wait to get into the server.

Seeing as Mr. Tea does ban throughout the night, I think it is working and there have been a good reduction in hackers on the server.

Again, it's one slot, the servers are still full. There shouldn't be a large problem with this. If you want to play that badly, then buy a reserved slot.

Okay, I didn't think I had to clarify this before, but I understand only 1 person tries to connect to the server at a time.  Now imagine multiple (single people) trying to connect to the server when the server is full.  This is what I mean by "turning players down."

Don't you have a reserved slot because you're an admin?

If Mr. Tea bans during the night, that means he's not AFK asleep, which I have said before; it is not the problem.

The reserved slot point is incomplete.  Am I able to join a full server, that is, with both reserved slots full (42/42), after purchasing a reserved slot?  If not, then buying a reserved slot does not solve the issue at hand.

Man we only have one popular maps server?  Shoot...I always thought it was weird that its name was #2. 

Damn...He claimed earlier I come in periodically and check but he knows I am sleeping.  I should just join, go to spectate when I am demoing someone, and then continue playing.  I'm sure people won't notice that.  I am not trying to quantify spec hours to bans.  I have banned 2x regulars who subtle hacking after watching them over a 2 week period on and off and with help from regulars.  Anytime I tried to demo them while I was active/slight inactive I wouldn't get anything, but when I lurked WHAMMO.

joker8baller Wrote:

Quote:That person is going to reconnect and get kicked and told that he is in a reserved slot.  He's going to find out that it's more work trying to get into the server and go somewhere else, thus losing a potential regular.  People that have never joined the server before will see that the server is full and not even bother connecting, thus losing a potential regular.  People with the server list filter on to filter out full servers will not even see it, thus losing a potential regular.

This is where I disagree. At the wee hours of the night when Mr. Tea is seemingly AFK, and the server is full, very few servers are populated at that hour, and even less that are available to the non-steam CS:S.

I've been running and admining servers for the past 7 years. I know what it takes to keep a server populated, and especially one throughout the night. From my experience, as I have stated before, having one to two slots taken up by an AFK isn't as much of a big deal as you're making it out to be. In fact, it actually helps a server out. People, at this time, and with the server being 42 shots, like playing in bigger servers. They are willing to wait to connect to such a server because it is popular.

Players aren't quitting because Tea is in spectator, and when Tea does catch and ban a regular for hacking, it's well worth the slot. Even if it takes hours of AFK time for Tea to catch that person, that's one less hacker, and the servers are still full.

Quote:So you're telling me when I see a server at 42/42, it means the server just hasn't kicked the most recently connected non-reserved slot holder out of the server yet?  Because, from what I've seen, no one, while playing, gets kicked to make room for a reserved slot.  I only notice I get kicked when I try to join at 40+/42 because I joined in a reserved slot.  If the former is false, then you contradicted yourself because, "technically," since you cannot join a server while it's full, no one will get kicked to make room for you.

From my understanding of the server, the 41 & 42 slots are reserved slots. If a reserved player (This is quite rare) tries to connect when the 41 & 42 slots are taken, the most recent player in the 42 slot will be kicked. I believe there might even be a "hidden" slot as well which allows for 43/42 players.

I'll state my original point. I don't see why this is a big problem. The servers are still full, and Tea is still catching hackers even if he is AFK at these times. The pattern of regularity of "being afk" lures regulars to believe that he is AFK, and therefore allowing them to be more blatant with their hacks.

In the end, it's just one slot on a 42/42 man server, of which we have 3 42 man slot servers active. Our servers are still full, and people are still having fun. If you want that slot Mr. Tea is in, and the server is full, then that person should donate and receive a reserved slot.

Edit: Zenk. I disagree. In such a large pub, having a 21 v 20 isn't going to magically stack the teams, and it's not a problem you should be concerned with. Should we be concerned when the server is 16 v 15? Is that unfair? Should we not let that 1 person play until they can balance the team's out? The point is valid to a degree, but doesn't hold much weight as it happens often.

You're taking "fairness" too far. Many admins don't bother with making teams fair, and they'll just switch themselves around, rather than other players, or they accept that "getting rolled" is part of the game.

Rabbit Wrote:Can we end this thread please? I'm very tired of people complaining and bickering of everything and everyone in this community to better suit their own personal needs.

Noooooooo! More reason.....Stop that you.  Get out of this thread.

OwnageHN Wrote:

joker8baller Wrote:I understand what you're saying, but my point is, at THAT time, it's only turning away one person, and more likely than not, that person is going to wait to reconnect.

That person is going to reconnect and get kicked and told that he is in a reserved slot.  He's going to find out that it's more work trying to get into the server and go somewhere else, thus losing a potential regular.  People that have never joined the server before will see that the server is full and not even bother connecting, thus losing a potential regular.  People with the server list filter on to filter out full servers will not even see it, thus losing a potential regular.

I must be the only person that has "Connect as soon as a slot opens." In my joined game options.  Man we need to start a thread to inform people about this.  It could build even more potential regulars.  Are you seriously making this an argument.  What crackpot marketer told you this?  Your really trying to marketing strategy to a server being full....Man there is so much demand.  I'll talk to the higher ups to see if we can make a Popular Maps Server #1.  It makes sense.  Its weird that we only have a Popular Maps Server #2.  Better yet, maybe we should make a way to link all the war-lords servers.  For example, you could type "!servers" and then magically transport yourself to another magical place.

Zenk Wrote:the point is u can only ever have 21 vs 20 with some1 afk in spec
which is unfair, and u guys are all about fairness

maybe make 43 ppl max ppl allowed in server? and only 21 per team? then an admin can spec all he wants without making teams unbalanced

OwnageHN Wrote:So you're telling me when I see a server at 42/42, it means the server just hasn't kicked the most recently connected non-reserved slot holder out of the server yet?  Because, from what I've seen, no one, while playing, gets kicked to make room for a reserved slot.  I only notice I get kicked when I try to join at 40+/42 because I joined in a reserved slot.  If the former is false, then you contradicted yourself because, "technically," since you cannot join a server while it's full, no one will get kicked to make room for you.

u can join the server now when its 40+/42... i think they removed that

The point is you were upset you couldn't join a server when it was full because I was in spectate.  It happened again, and you began stalking me. (Don't worry I won't get a restraining order.)  Then you probably were unable to join again.  Finally, when we played on the same time.  Hearing my voice on the mic or reading "Oh noes!" set you off and " i think something should be done about this...."

joker8baller Wrote:

Quote:That person is going to reconnect and get kicked and told that he is in a reserved slot.  He's going to find out that it's more work trying to get into the server and go somewhere else, thus losing a potential regular.  People that have never joined the server before will see that the server is full and not even bother connecting, thus losing a potential regular.  People with the server list filter on to filter out full servers will not even see it, thus losing a potential regular.

This is where I disagree. At the wee hours of the night when Mr. Tea is seemingly AFK, and the server is full, very few servers are populated at that hour, and even less that are available to the non-steam CS:S.

I've been running and admining servers for the past 7 years. I know what it takes to keep a server populated, and especially one throughout the night. From my experience, as I have stated before, having one to two slots taken up by an AFK isn't as much of a big deal as you're making it out to be. In fact, it actually helps a server out. People, at this time, and with the server being 42 shots, like playing in bigger servers. They are willing to wait to connect to such a server because it is popular.

Players aren't quitting because Tea is in spectator, and when Tea does catch and ban a regular for hacking, it's well worth the slot. Even if it takes hours of AFK time for Tea to catch that person, that's one less hacker, and the servers are still full.

Quote:So you're telling me when I see a server at 42/42, it means the server just hasn't kicked the most recently connected non-reserved slot holder out of the server yet?  Because, from what I've seen, no one, while playing, gets kicked to make room for a reserved slot.  I only notice I get kicked when I try to join at 40+/42 because I joined in a reserved slot.  If the former is false, then you contradicted yourself because, "technically," since you cannot join a server while it's full, no one will get kicked to make room for you.

From my understanding of the server, the 41 & 42 slots are reserved slots. If a reserved player (This is quite rare) tries to connect when the 41 & 42 slots are taken, the most recent player in the 42 slot will be kicked. I believe there might even be a "hidden" slot as well which allows for 43/42 players.

I'll state my original point. I don't see why this is a big problem. The servers are still full, and Tea is still catching hackers even if he is AFK at these times. The pattern of regularity of "being afk" lures regulars to believe that he is AFK, and therefore allowing them to be more blatant with their hacks.

In the end, it's just one slot on a 42/42 man server, of which we have 3 42 man slot servers active. Our servers are still full, and people are still having fun. If you want that slot Mr. Tea is in, and the server is full, then that person should donate and receive a reserved slot.

Edit: Zenk. I disagree. In such a large pub, having a 21 v 20 isn't going to magically stack the teams, and it's not a problem you should be concerned with. Should we be concerned when the server is 16 v 15? Is that unfair? Should we not let that 1 person play until they can balance the team's out? The point is valid to a degree, but doesn't hold much weight as it happens often.

You're taking "fairness" too far. Many admins don't bother with making teams fair, and they'll just switch themselves around, rather than other players, or they accept that "getting rolled" is part of the game.

Again...stay out of this thread with your sound logic.....

I look forward to the additional page to follow...On the way!


BTW......Read either the first paragraph or under the "red Spoiler Alert" text if you missed the point of anything that this thread may provide.

I thought I should clear up a few things.

OwnageHN Wrote:I'm not sure how reserved slots work.  If I join a full server, does it automatically kick a non-reserved slot holder out?  Or, am I denied because there's an AFK reserved slot holder sitting in Spectator?

Neither of these assumptions are correct. The reserved slot works in the following way, two slots are reserved for admins or other selected users, and regardless of whether one of these users are connected or not, the slots are still inaccessible to the general public and will result in a kick on connect. The reserved slots are only usable when all public slots are inuse and when there are some reserved slots available. If a user connects on a reserved slot and someone on a public slots leaves, then the user will then be pushed onto a public slot (i think, it could also just keep them on the reserved slot).

joker8baller Wrote:Correction, I do have a reserved slot, but I must still wait to connect when the server is full.

There's a bug in SRCDS which has messed up the slot count by slightly increasing it, however, this does not have an effect on the slots themselves. You'll have to do "connect IPORT" in console to get into the server as any attempt to do it through the server menu will likely bring up the server full dialog. The reason being that the servers menu on client tries to compute whether you'll fit by obtaining the current slot count and the maximum slots. And as you can guess, if the server is reporting 42/42, then the client won't even try to connect. The "connect IPORT" command on the other hand, completely circumvents this client-side checking, and tries to connect regardless.

If you're wondering why the client does these checks before trying to connect, the reason is that it can request this information packet several times per second, whereas actually trying to connect to the server is a lengthy and slow process that can take several seconds to complete. It's only there to make your life less frustrating, or in this case more frustrating, as the SRCDS bug has messed up the slot count. Although, if you think about it, it's sort of like free reserved slots for public players, since the last few slots can't be used without the connect command, and so most public players won't be aware that they can get in by using it.

PS: Popular Maps #2 isn't actually full until it says 48/42. This is due to the slot count being messed up by 6. When the servers activity drops sometime later, I'll restart the server and check if there are any available updates which fix the bug.  :o