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The idea is quite simple: one awp and only for the losing team or for when both teams' scores are even.

Bison's_Reasoning Wrote:My reasoning behind the “FOR 1 AWP for losing team ONLY” idea:

[list type=decimal]
[*]We’ve got issues relating to camping and stacked teams / unbalanced teams.
[*]People complain and try to circumvent attempts to balance teams by admins.
[*]The AWP will be an incentive for skilled players to willfully switch to a losing team.
[*]The losing team doesn't have the finances to maintain an AWP war.
[*]The AWP is a long range one-hit kill weapon which when used by moderately good players, cannot be defeated without decent strategy or results in massive casualties.
[*]The losing team tends to be severely disorganized.
[*]The losing team normally consists of random people who decide to try the hero tactic and rush by themselves.
[*]Even some of the worst players can make an overall difference by inflicting some damage prior to dying.
[*]Terrible players normally spray and pray which renders them unable to hit and thus inflict damage to distance targets.
[*]The losing team normally doesn't have the organization to take out an AWPer (they rush one by one and tend to die before inflicting any damage).
[*]A moderately good AWPer can in most cases successfully AWP even hard to kill targets.
[*]The stacked team tends to be the one which camps CT-T sided maps, the AWP is typically used when camping.
[/list]


My reasons not behind the “FOR 1 AWP for losing team ONLY” idea but for some reason still interpreted as such:

[list type=decimal]
[*]The AWP will effectively make bad gamers play better.
[*]The AWP effectively decides which team wins.
[/list]

to be continued...

For those who still don't get the point of this, hopefully this will clear it up.

STEAM Wrote:Nada [:: My point is just, people can do the same amount of daamge with an ak/m4 or even a scout. Some people roll the other team with just an ak.
Because the losing team is normally the rushing team. Then a rifle would be better than an awp. Having an awp would just acknowledge camping rather than doing objectives
You have to take into consideration other circumstances, rather than a long hallway where awps will certainly be dominant. Like tunnels, a good person with an ak can
roll the whole team inside. If that good person got an awp and tried rushing, then no. So my point is, a skilled person can do as much damage with an ak/m4 than an awp
They lose the ability to awp? who cares, they can still ak/m4 and own the other teams.

In addition, the switching will be bottlenecked a bit, I think. Because of the teamlimit. You should just change mp_teamlimit to 2 for the people on the winning team
to be able to switch to the losing team. So one guy loses the ability to awp. however, the other team is still full. Oh well, that guy gets an ak/m4 and starts owning with it
A new spot arises, but he doesnt go. Afterall, he's owning the other team with it.

Nada [:: The best solution imo, would just be a team balance of some sort
Nada [:: and a clarification that TEAM BALANCING YOU is NOT admin abuse.
General M. Bison: lol
General M. Bison: that's where our thought processes seperate
General M. Bison: i'm not saying good players don't do about the same amount of damage
General M. Bison: what i'm trying to say is that
General M. Bison: every hit a newb manages to gain on a player
General M. Bison: further increases the chances that the player will die randomly from a nade or something
General M. Bison: something like that could quite easily change the tide of battle
General M. Bison: the problem is these bad players can't hit distant targets at all
General M. Bison: they'll never be useful at all
General M. Bison: against an awper atleast
General M. Bison: while against an m4 or ak
General M. Bison: they might hit something
Nada [:: Okay, I see now.
Nada [:: I'm not sure you will agree
Nada [:: However!
Nada [:: In addition to having the awp restricted for the winning team
Nada [:: HAve, instead of 1 awp, 2 awps available
Nada [:: For the losing team.
General M. Bison: that was an another option
General M. Bison: if scores are even
General M. Bison: entirely remove awp limit
Nada [:: Exactly.
Nada [::
General M. Bison: if it falls
General M. Bison: induce limiting
General M. Bison: then totally restrict
General M. Bison: do you think if i posted our convo
General M. Bison: it might clear up peoples understanding of what i'm trying to do?
Nada [:: Yup.
Nada [:: Keep in mind i'm 15, still only a child.
Nada [::
General M. Bison: pfft, based on their replies
General M. Bison: i can tell they couldn't understand what i was saying
General M. Bison: i just couldn't put it into clear words

If that still doesn't clear up your misconceptions of my idea, then let's hope this short and brief summary below will do so:

I want to make "spray and pray" a valid newbie tactic again in order to combat stacked teams. 



If we are to implement such a plugin, it would tell you at the start of the round whether an awp is available for purchase or not. Also, when someone buys the awp, it'll then say that none are available and further state who bought it (only to buyers team).

Good idea, yes, no? Leave reasoning and what you voted in a reply or your vote will be disregarded.

I'm all for it!

That does sound like a good idea. I have another suggestion though (as always lol ).

The main problem I see with awps is that because they are limited and expensive, people don't want to drop them, so they will not rush because they don't want to risk the chance of dying and losing it. Most would try and justify their actions by saying that it's expensive, and they don't want to buy it and then drop it, ergo losing money.

The actual fact is, most people don't want to drop it because they know that there is a chance that someone else will buy it in the next round, leaving them awp-less, and in some cases, completely powerless (I know several players who are terrible without an awp, not naming any names).

My suggestion comes in a few parts :

- Make everyone force drop the awps at the end of the round. People are still able to pick up a dropped awp during the round, but at the end it's force dropped and those wielding it are refunded money, so they don't lose anything.

- Keep it one awp per team. You can easily kill an awper with several arrays of weaponry. I rarely buy the awp (I pick it up if it's dropped sometimes), and I manage to out-snipe awpers constantly with the scout, or even just AK/Deag headshots.

- Here is the important bit : Limit the number of consecutive rounds that a single player can buy an awp. For example, limit it so that you can't start the round more than 3 times with an awp, and if you attempt to buy it you are met with the message "This item is not currently available" or whatever the message was.

This would mean that you HAVE to buy an awp at the beginning of each round if you want to be the awper, but you can't buy it more than 3 rounds in a row. It would stop people running away from objectives just to keep the awp, as you would be forced to drop it at the end of the round anyway, making it a pointless hold.

Maybe couple this with asking admins to slay someone who is obviously awp-holding at the beginning of the round (for example, someone who is clearly running away from attempting to defuse the bomb so that they can save their awp. I see this a lot, and it bugs me to hell).

I don't know, I feel that having the losing team have the awp would just mean more team switching to get the awp. Also, if the team is losing horribly, then most players won't have the funds to buy an awp, plus K&H and a DK, so it would be like no one awping.

Just a suggestion

I vote No.  AWPs are restricted on "most pub servers" because most pub servers have noob admin.  The AWP is earned, either by time or winning rounds.  In fact, I propose multiple AWPs per team, rather than just one.  I've been in pubs where they scaled the amount of AWPs per population, so that 1 in every 5-6 players could have an AWP.  Also, AWP was only enabled when there were 10 or more people in the server, so an AWPer didn't kill the server when they went below 10 players.

Your best bet at balancing the teams is to give the losing team money.  The biggest reason why a winning team continues to win is because everyone on the winning team has money while the losing team does not coordinate "saving" and maybe only half of the team will have guns per round.

As to Rival's suggestions, the best AWPer should always have the AWP.  Anyone to suggest otherwise does not understand the point of competition.  To win a round, you do everything necessary.  You logically give the best AWPer the AWP, and the best rifler the rifle.  It's the same logic as planting the bomb.  You plant the bomb at the bomb site in order to increase your chances of winning the round.

That gives me an idea. I can simply make it remove the awp after each round and refund the money. That way everyone has a fair chance at getting it and terrible awpers don't hog it.

Additionally, the losing team wouldn't necessarily be when the team scores have a difference of 1, but rather, you're considered the losing team when score difference is excessive like greater than 5, etc, etc.

M. Bison Wrote:That gives me an idea. I can simply make it remove the awp after each round and refund the money. That way everyone has a fair chance at getting it and terrible awpers don't hog it.

This is a great idea!  So, like a hound, if there's found an AWP laying around on the ground at the end of the round, you'll wound up getting a massive $4750 (not pounds) bound into your pocket for the next round!?

The existing plugin already deals with that circumstance. It removes the awp on the ground just as you step on it and right before you ever pick it up. You don't get any money from doing this.

Oh wait, if you're referring to if no one else on your team has the awp, then yes. If you're on the losing team and you're allowed to pick up the awp, you'd get a hefty $4,750 in your pocket which will effectively pull you out of bankruptcy. 

M. Bison Wrote:The existing plugin already deals with that circumstance. It removes the awp on the ground just as you step on it and right before you ever pick it up. You don't get any money from doing this.

Oh wait, if you're referring to if no one else on your team has the awp, then yes. If you're on the losing team and you're allowed to pick up the awp, you'd get a hefty $4,750 in your pocket which will effectively pull you out of bankruptcy. 

Actually I was referring to the cases (I think in 24/7 Dust2) where I would have an AWP, and some, in your words, "terrible awper" would pick up the other team's AWP by the end of the round, and MY AWP ends up getting refunded to me at the beginning of next round when I had it originally, and I'm a better AWPer than this person.

Yes, my idea would go about this slightly differently. All awps would be removed and everyone would have a fair chance at snatching it during the start of the round.

OwnageHN Wrote:As to Rival's suggestions, the best AWPer should always have the AWP.  Anyone to suggest otherwise does not understand the point of competition.  To win a round, you do everything necessary.  You logically give the best AWPer the AWP, and the best rifler the rifle.  It's the same logic as planting the bomb.  You plant the bomb at the bomb site in order to increase your chances of winning the round.

But that's ridiculous, because usually there are several good awpers on a server, so why should one guy always have the awp? Just because he camps, holds onto it and loses the round by ignoring the objective rather than going for the objective and possibly dying and losing the awp? I think you missed most of my suggestion, and just read "limit the consecutive amount of purchases". With my suggestion, it gives a fair rotation to all the people on the server who have good awp skills.

OwnageHN Wrote:

M. Bison Wrote:The existing plugin already deals with that circumstance. It removes the awp on the ground just as you step on it and right before you ever pick it up. You don't get any money from doing this.

Oh wait, if you're referring to if no one else on your team has the awp, then yes. If you're on the losing team and you're allowed to pick up the awp, you'd get a hefty $4,750 in your pocket which will effectively pull you out of bankruptcy. 

Actually I was referring to the cases (I think in 24/7 Dust2) where I would have an AWP, and some, in your words, "terrible awper" would pick up the other team's AWP by the end of the round, and MY AWP ends up getting refunded to me at the beginning of next round when I had it originally, and I'm a better AWPer than this person.

Boo hoo? You get your money refunded, no big deal. If that guy is such a terrible awper, he'll die quickly and you'll have a chance to either pick up his awp or buy another one when the next round starts. Get a rifle and a deagle, and go get yourself some kills that aren't down the end of a scope.


I hate this whole mentality of "I am the greatest awper, no one else should touch that weapon apart from me". A player is only as good as the whole of his parts. If you can't get a kill without using an awp, then you need to practise with other weapons. Several player on the server say stuff like "omg gimme the awp its mine you suck" and it really gets my back up. You don't automatically have the right to that weapon just because you have a certain amount of skill with it. The problem isn't that they are buying the awp, it's that the "I'm the awper" guy can't hit sh.it without a scope.

I am just trying to promote a better style of gameplay. The game gets extremely stale when it's just one guy awping and letting everyone else die just because he wants to keep his big shiny expensive toy. Get some rotation going with that awp, and you'll see a much more balanced style of play.

M. Bison Wrote:Yes, my idea would go about this slightly differently. All awps would be removed and everyone would have a fair chance at snatching it during the start of the round.

You are thinking along the same lines as me, and I like it. I want the awp to be rotated through the people that actually want to awp, rather than one guy hogging it because he's "the best". Limiting it to 3 consecutive rounds of purchase, and then 3 rounds where you would be restricted from purchasing the awp, would make much better gameplay I think. Sick of awp hoggers.