(wL) Forums

joker8baller Wrote:Sounds like a complicated plugin >.<

It doesn't matter if it's a complicated plugin. If it solves our problems then I'll happily allocate enough time to promptly finishing it.

Quote:In my eyes, the awper is an essential part of the movement of the team. If Ts are rushing, the awper should offer them support by moving with that squad and remaining slightly behind the players with rifles, so they can offer up suppressing fire whilst the other team members use grenades and rifles to effectively push forward to the target site. On CTs, the awper should move with the weaker squad to offer a bigger amount of support for the defense. Camping is not acceptable.

That's where I disagree, the best awpers on CT's are typically always camping, they never rotate unless with a squad. But it comes down to this, every team utilizes the awper in a different way, whether it be picking, shutting down the rear, or aiding an escape, it's up to the player to choose what avenue and how they want to play with it.

The biggest thing I think we're missing is the fact that it's what the players want. People come to the server, as Tea said, because we have the awp enabled, and we're not a d*ck about it. I hate servers that have no awps, and I don't frequent them.

Quote:I am more referring to the people that hear the bomb being planted and run away from the bomb site, when they have ample time to strike and defuse. One man with an awp and a deagle can effectively dispatch a few enemies whilst the remaining team members move forward to go for the defuse. Lots of times I have had the awper cover me whilst I run in for the defuse, and it works perfectly.

Maybe a player wouldn't be of any use, if they're not doing the objective, that's a legitimate reason for the admin to beacon, slap, fire, or kick.

And no, if the player ignores the objective simply because there is no hope to win, it is a legitimate strategy that is frequently used in scrims. Why bother going to get massacred and killed? There's no fun especially if you know you can't win, you might as well save your weapon, receive no money next round, and stay alive.

Quote:If the only weapon you can use is an awp then I feel very sorry for you, because you're missing a huge amount of the game by limiting yourself to a fairly shoddy weapon. It benefits you greatly to be proficient with several different weapons. What if the awp is unavailable? What do you do then? Maybe it's just the way I learnt to play the game, by only ever buying a deagle and picking up various weapons to save money for those hard rounds.

I have never stated that the AWP is the only gun I can use. I was never a competitive awper in any of my leagues, and in fact the AWP is probably one of my worst positions to play on a competitive CS:S team. Again, you're missing the point, the point of the game is to have fun, so if you enjoy awping, and you are able to get the awp. Go for it.

Quote:What about those awp hoggers that constantly camp out and annoy people? I think you lose way more players to ragequitting with that, than you would if the awp was rotated around the team.

I don't see people ragequitting about a camping awp, I see them complaining, but I believe that we will lose a good amount of regulars if we further restrict the AWP.

Quote:If the player ignores the objective, then they have no right to keep anything. People get slayed for ignoring objectives, I find no mercy to those who ignore it just to keep a gun.

Again, it's a legitimate strategy, one frequently used in scrims.

Quote:I am singling out the awper because there is only one of them per team. It's easy to be singled out when you're the only one. Secondly, I am sure you would have a different tune if you were on a team where a terrible awper kept purchasing the awp, round after round, and kept ignoring the objective to hold onto the weapon. Since "terrible" is relative, this term could apply to anyone.

And no, since deagles are available for everyone and not limited to one per team, everybody has the exact same chance to get those 1 deags, or at least practise enough to be able to get those kinds of kills, so its completely fair for an amazing deagle player to own the map. Also, since the deagle is nowhere near as powerful as the awp, you're point is completely invalid.

How about we single out the autosniper as well? Extremely overpowered, kills with relative ease, and yeah. And yes, with over 14 days on the Warlords servers, I have been on teams where the awper was completely terrible, what did I do? I either ignored him, since he wasn't helping the team much, or I waited for the other awper to pick him. So, I don't see your arguement there.

That was more a rhetorical, giving how far should we go to cater to the needs of players with a lower skill level. If we take every complaint about a gun, where will we stop? If you're not good with an AWP, don't complain if you don't get to use it simply because you keep dying with it, go to another server, practice, then come back.

Quote:How does getting killed over and over again by the same awp hogger make you a better player? Also, I think you're missing my point. If a player is bad, they will not have enough money to buy the awp, leaving the good players with the chance to buy it, if they want to. It's just purely for the sake of rotating the awp around the players that actually have enough skill to be able to buy and use the awp, you know?

I'll give you an example. Myself, Parik, CENTRAL and My Mom are all on a team, and we are the top 4. We all want to awp, but Parik keeps hogging the awp so we can't buy it. With the new limitations in place, Parik would only be able to purchase it for 3 rounds before myself, Central or Mom would be able to buy it. You may laugh at my example, but it's actually happened, and it's been extremely frustrating since both Parik and Central hog the awp and refuse to complete the objective, whereas My Mom is an amazing awper who can rush and complete the objective with no problem.

Sorry for my long posts, but I don't think people are fully understanding me. I feel like you are against me because you are the people that are the awp hoggers (I know Ownage is, for sure), and you don't want it to change because then your style of gameplay would be out the window, and god forbid you'd have to learn to use another weapon.

Getting killed over and over by an awper should make you look over your own strategy, and if not, watch the other players. Obviously you're doing something wrong, and your strategy is flawed. When I, Nada, Ownage, Rabbit, or any of the other players take on AWP'er, watch how we do it. You won't get better by playing against worst players, the only way you can truly train your skill and become a better player is to play with people who give you a challenge, who are better, who force you to adjust to a new strategy on the fly. If you're able to do this, then you will become a better player. If you can't do such a thing, then you won't become a better player. No one starts off amazing at video games, you play for hours, you get killed over and over and over again by better players, but the only way you'll ever become better is to stick with it.

I've played against CENTRAL, and yes, he does AWP a lot, and rarely does the objective, but when I have a 3.33 ratio against him, I just can't see the point behind your argument, there is always a way to take out a person.
I'm also not missing your point, as bad players WILL save to get the AWP, go out, get killed immediately and more often than not, the AWP is unreachable.

The complaints you have mentioned are legitimate strategies, and many of them are in use by professional CS:S teams. Pubbing isn't a scrim or a match, and yes I realize this, but having less restrictions and playing the game it was meant to be played, is the best way to learn. Not to mention, it promotes a better community. If you can't afford the awp, you save. It's part of the strategy and tactics of the game.

As for your comment about the AWP hogger:
http://wls.gameme.com/playerinfo/56693

I'll let my stats speak for themselves. Banning the AWP isn't going to change my gameplay. I'm a rusher, I can't do the whole let's sit somewhere and stare and wait. I'm much more proficient with many other weapons then the AWP, as you can see.

It's not the fact that we don't want to change our gameplay by "having the awp 24/7", but many players like myself play to have fun, and it's not fun when you're dominating with a weapon and then it's suddenly taken away. I went 16-0 with the M4 today, and for example, if you took my weapon away because I was too good with it, then I'd be supremely pissed. It's the fact that we joined this server because it didn't have a large limitation on AWP's, it's a reasonable limitation to only have one, but when we get it, how is our fault that we hog the awp because we're good with it? It's not just that, we do have the server's best intentions in mind, and we don't want to lose the skilled regulars that frequent the server because of a new rule. We're here for the players, and since the servers are still populated, I don't see it being a problem. Maybe it's my background in scrimming and the nuances of CounterStrike, but it's what I feel.

Interesting fact, on my favorite server (Popular) versus the stats for your popular server (Dust2 24/7)

I have a 7.49% kills with the AWP, and you have 7.5%, whose the awp ho now? 

This is just another shameful attempt to socialize the game by trying to make everything noob friendly. There's not much balance to this. I have already said that even if the losing team has awp, on any map where a team has an inherent advantage once past a certain number of players, usually around a 15v15, the losing team will get rolled by the winning team nonetheless. Examples are de_dust and cs_italy. It will not matter much on "balanced" maps like de_dust2 because most players on the losing team are not able to make an important difference with the awp. The winning team will not lose just because the losing team has an awp and the winning team doesn't. I have also said that the winning team does not win solely by the awp alone.
A reason that people play here is because we allow the awp to be used, albeit at a 1 per team limit. But still, we enable the awp. I have not seen anyone actually complain about the awp, except for the noob every now and then that wants an awp-free server because they suck at the game.
I already voiced my opposition to this in Steam Chat with you. My vote is clearly no.
I have suggested that a $1500-$2500 startup cash to the losing team be implemented past at least the 4th round.

I'm actually all for it, but I do think it'll piss a lot of people off that only use the awp. I think it would help balance the teams, but only mildly or moderately in most cases. Would it be feasible to only engage team balance after a team is ahead by like 5 rounds? The problem I've seen in the past with very aggressive team balancing plugins is that they try to even the teams every single round... something else I've seen is that some or many of the better players only join the stacked side. I.E. CT on nuke, aztec or prodigy, and they'll join T an just about any map with hostages. If an auto balancer started switching top players after 5 wins, by round 7 or 8, aztec and nuke would be fair maps. In most cases, its only 2-3 people that really cause the teams to be unfair

I,The Rival - Just stop dude.  Don't really think your in a position to preach being so versitile with weapons. 

I'm an awp whore.  I am still effective with an m4/ak/deag.  Most awpers buy a deag no armor while they are saving and pick up dropped weapons for the first 3 rnds (if on the losing team). 

joker8baller isn't a awp whore, but is experienced enough to know the different type of CSS players.

I just get the "I'm a LEET player that scouts awpers because I am above them."  CSS isn't a mantra, its a game.  A game that a lot of us have spent way too much time playing.  Most players that critize the awp can't use it and get upset when they meet someone who can.  I think you fall into this category.

LagAvenger Wrote:Would it be feasible to only engage team balance after a team is ahead by like 5 rounds?

M. Bison Wrote:Additionally, the losing team wouldn't necessarily be when the team scores have a difference of 1, but rather, you're considered the losing team when score difference is excessive like greater than 5, etc, etc.

M. Bison Wrote:It'd really only take effect when the other team is getting rolled every single round.

yup, that's exactly what I'm trying to do with it.

As there were a few long replies to my posts, I don't want anyone to feel like I am disrespecting them by not replying, so I will just put this down again :

I, The Rival Wrote:I am just gonna back out of this now whilst I still have a little sanity. Thanks for reading my posts though, no hard feelings to anyone that I may have offended, I love you all

So sometimes my ideas are bad, but I am a bigger picture guy. I was under the impression that the servers were meant to be noob friendly, which is why I have recently requested the "hardcore" server (block on, FF on etc), for those of us who feel that the pubs are a little more nerfed than we desire.

Apologies if I rubbed anyone the wrong way. I just have some strong ideas and opinions about things, I guess I don't vocalise them very well, or always seem to have a certain amount of animosity in my posts or whatever. You all know I am a friendly guy, I just stick up for what I believe in a bit too strongly sometimes.

Sorry

I think you'll get better results with switching players rather than limiting awp though. Just have to make sure its not too aggressive. Being worried about switching up friends shouldn't really be an issue. Like it wouldn't be fair if me, rabbit, joker, nada, gemini, goon, etc... all joined the same team, so why tolerate that kind of team stacking? Sometimes it's not intentional, but the result is the same

A really good awper could probably take out a good deal of you prior to dying. I don't think this would be the case if he was against an equally good awper on the stacked team. It sort of lets this teamstacking of friends continue a bit longer before getting out of hand. 

My vote is no. The problem is team-balancing, im not a good player but im always trying to help the losing team just check my admin log! I think peoples shouldnt complain about being switched by admins