I imagine a couple, or many, may flame me for this thread but w/e.
I've never been one to believe in any kind of conspiracy, but I recently stumbled upon the notion of people thinking the whole Sandy Hook Shooting thing is some kind of hoax and I've got to say some of it makes sense. Now in no way am I trying to downplay the tragedy of children being killed, but I've come to believe it may not have happened at all (in this case, a 'crazy' conspiracy theory seems rather optimistic). On the other hand it may just be some coincidences and terrible journalism that has led to my being able to believe this.

[video=youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=fhqjnxKOTSc[/video]
This video lists many suspicious elements of the whole ordeal, some make more sense in supporting the idea of a hoax to me than others, I'll just mention a few things.

The state's chief medical examiner (in the video) states that a 'long rifle' was the primary weapon, when the M.E. was asked about the caliber of the bullets that inflicted the wounds he was unable or unwilling to answer... seems like the sort of question a state's chief medical examiner should be able to field easily.

Initially it was reported that Ryan Lanza (Adam's brother) was the perp, this was apparently because Adam had his brother's I.D. on him... and further information indicates they haven't seen each other for about 2 years. Doesn't prove anything but it is very odd.

At first it was stated that Adam's mother was a teacher at the school. This is supported by a female reporter relaying the school nurses testimony that she was a teacher and 'exactly the kind of person you would want around your 5 year old,' however later reports indicated that the mother is not a teacher there at all.

At just past 8:30 in that video above, Robbie Parker, father of a slain 6 year old girl, comes out to talk to the press. As he walks out he's smiling and chuckling, then he takes a couple moments and his expression turns grim then he begins talking about the incident. Now if your 6 year old had just been shot to death at school the previous day, is there ANY way you could be smiling and chuckling immediately before you talk to the media about it?

There was a facebook page titled 'R.I.P. Victoria Soto' in memoriam of a teacher that was killed attempting to defend some children, it said it was created December 10th, and the incident occurred on the 14th. It has been removed and recreated... people left comments asking why the page was created before the incident, and apparently someone (presumably the creator) had posted anonymously saying the page was originally for something else and that they then changed it to the memorial after the event, saying their original page wasn't popular anyways. This is possible... but it doesn't make it true...why not just create an entirely new page for Soto? Thin maybe...still weird.

Also there haven't been any surveillance images from the school released. The school is said to have cameras, but there's no pictures (that I've seen or heard of) of the perp on the premises. These sorts of incidents usually have an image of the perpetrator(s) or victim(s) in some fashion (remember Columbine? http://www.columbine-online.com/columbine-online-img/killers-friends/eric-dylan-commons-close.jpg)
I've seen images of ambulances and stretchers, but I haven't seen any images of someone that has been hit...

Again I'll say, I've never actually believed in something like this. I may ultimately be wrong, but there's definitely been a lot of contradictory reports and people behaving unexpectedly in talking to the press...

[cucubelu]

Too big of an event and too many "witnesses" involved for it to be a conspiracy or a hoax. There are just too many loose ends open and I doubt it could stay hidden if it was. One can find contradictory reports in a lot of things today, and everything is "live" information etc. There are too many solid reporters out there, and I doubt all of them hit a wall, and there would be a multi-million dollar award for such a person to come out and say it was all hoax.

Neah, I am sorry I understand the contradictory reports in the matter, and some of them are interesting to the case, but honestly the scale of thing is to massive for it to be a hoax, we are after all talking about a whole town.

[lin3ar]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp

lolno

Just a bunch of conspiracy theorists who are paranoid about having their guns taken away. Mind you, I support the Second Amendment fully and don't agree with limiting magazine capacities or banning rifles (or assault weapons as the media would like to label them), but I disagree with such Chicken Little conspiracies.

cucubelu might be right. we can't convince people

http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp

lolno

Just a bunch of conspiracy theorists who are paranoid about having their guns taken away. Mind you, I support the Second Amendment fully and don't agree with limiting magazine capacities or banning rifles (or assault weapons as the media would like to label them), but I disagree with such Chicken Little conspiracies.

Pft, don't 'lolno' me like Snopes.com is any kind of authority. It's like wikipedia but not as organized; a collection of information with citations provided, but at least wikipedia provides links and puts the bracketed citation numbers in the appropriate positions. Snopes.com sources are the same contradictory reports I'm talking about. For a couple of them it doesn't even address the issue, but merely restates the bizarre information.

Personally I don't even have a gun, so I can't be paranoid about guns being taken away. I've never owned one and I'm not particularly interested in having one. If I had one and I got pissed off at someone then it's that much easier for me to go and kill them on an impulse.
Snopes makes no mention of why Robbie Parker is in such a fantastic mood so soon after his 6 year old girl got shot to death.

Traumatic shock would do well to explain it.

http://www.trauma-pages.com/s/t-facts.php

emotional swings -- like crying and then laughing.

Sorry, but I doubt that the government would manufacture a tragedy like this, especially one so large-spread to take a stronger stance on gun-control, simply because what they're proposing and stuff isn't fixing the source of the problem, it just appears to to the public.

Traumatic shock would do well to explain it.

http://www.trauma-pages.com/s/t-facts.php

emotional swings -- like crying and then laughing.

Sorry, but I doubt that the government would manufacture a tragedy like this, especially one so large-spread to take a stronger stance on gun-control, simply because what they're proposing and stuff isn't fixing the source of the problem, it just appears to to the public.

What's the source of the problem that they aren't addressing ?

The fact that these are mentally ill people and that they think it's ok to do this?

And that current regulation and current laws don't really do anything but punish legal gun owners. It's the illegal guns & stolen guns, especially those smuggled into our borders. Even if guns never existed, people would use swords, knives, or bombs (easier & cheaper to obtain!)

obama addressed both of those issues you bring up in his 23 executive orders he just signed. more specific stuff to be tried to pass congress later

I'm more referencing the New York laws that were just enacted. People are like "ERMAGAHD, they're so good", when they're really not.

I've read over Obama's Executive Orders and I don't agree that they're sufficiently addressing the issue, or doing the right thing.

Proposed Congressional Actions

• Requiring criminal background checks for all gun sales, including those by private sellers that currently are exempt. Fine, already enacted in California. I'm used to it.
  
• Reinstating and strengthening the ban on assault weapons that was in place from 1994 to 2004. Disagree. I don't wish to see another ban on Assault Weapons. I can see why we don't need them, but my personal opinion is that we shouldn't.
  
• Limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds. In place in California. Dislike this, think it's wholly ineffective. I can switch mags out of an M4 or pistol in about a second or less. It does nearly nothing. Limiting from whatever to 10 is dumb, especially when there are going to be forcing gun owners to buy or install mag blocks, which for many guns will have to be custom-made
  
• Banning the possession of armor-piercing bullets by anyone other than members of the military and law enforcement. Fine.
  
• Increasing criminal penalties for "straw purchasers," people who pass the required background check to buy a gun on behalf of someone else. How many criminals actually do this? How many criminals have law-abiding friends that will willingly buy them guns?
  
• Acting on a $4 billion administration proposal to help keep 15,000 police officers on the street. Good.
  
• Confirming President Obama's nominee for director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. Cool.
  
• Eliminating a restriction that requires the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to allow the importation of weapons that are more than 50 years old. Uhhh, what's the point
  
• Financing programs to train more police officers, first responders and school officials on how to respond to active armed attacks. Good, but... meh complicated thoughts
  
• Provide additional $20 million to help expand the a system that tracks violent deaths across the nation from 18 states to 50 states. Hope violent means other weapons and physical violence.
  
• Providing $30 million in grants to states to help schools develop emergency response plans. Good.
  
• Providing financing to expand mental health programs for young people. Uhh, we'll see how that turns out.
  

Executive actions

• Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system. Already in California, used to it.
  
• Addressing unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system. Eh, dangerous zones here. People are going to be more wary of getting psychological help for their children if it means a permanent black mark on their background check etc. It's fairly common in Asians to not as well. People are already afraid of getting their children diagnosed for psychological problems.
  
• Improving incentives for states to share information with the background check system. Good, but how does it really help?
  
• Directing the attorney general to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks. Unclear, but again, doesn't do much.
  
• Proposing a rule making to give law enforcement authorities the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun. I'm pretty sure it's already allowed in California.
  
• Publishing a letter from the A.T.F. to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. Again, done before.
  
• Starting a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign. Cool.
  
• Reviewing safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).CA DOJ already has one for this.
  
• Issuing a presidential memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. Should already be done.
  
• Releasing a report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and making it widely available to law enforcement authorities.Should already be done.
  
• Nominating an A.T.F. director.Cool.
  
• Providing law enforcement authorities, first responders and school officials with proper training for armed attacks situations. Already done, but more training helps.
  
• Maximizing enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.How about other violent crimes which are more prevalent in our society?
  
• Issuing a presidential memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to research gun violence. Not a lot's going to be found from here.
  
• Directing the attorney general to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenging the private sector to develop innovative technologies.Cool.
  
• Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.Huh?
  
• Releasing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.Huh?
  
• Providing incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.GUNS IN DAT SCHOOL DOE. For the record, I don't think guns in schools are a good option even if the hands of a trained professional.
  
• Developing model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education. Should already be done.
  
• Releasing a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.There's going to be anger about this.
  
• Finalizing regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within insurance exchanges.lol.
  
• Committing to finalizing mental health parity regulations.meh
  
• Starting a national dialogue on mental health led by Kathleen Sebelius, the secretary of health and human services, and Arne Duncan, the secretary of education. Dialogue, not action.
  

This is a cop-out. This isn't what needs to be done, this is what the public wants to see. That's complete crap.

We need more funding to stop the influx of illegal guns into the United States. We need more prevention on gang violence using firearms.

But the thing is. Guns are just a small piece of the problem.

Even if guns did not exist, it would be through some other weapon, whether it be with a knife, sword, poison, chemical warfare, or bomb (Easier to acquire, and cheap!). The thing is that these massacres, these tragedies are carried out by mentally ill or unstable people. Some of these people, like the Aurora shooter, are very intelligent, and they can think of other ways to commit these tragedies. While it's sad that these incidences occur, the death toll of a larger bomb in a crowded area would be even worse.

Let us not act on gun control now, let us act onto fixing what's wrong with our society, and the belief that it's better to protect your kids from the real world, even if it means not giving them the treatment that they need. Let us not repeat what the New York governor did, and enact a law because of his own beliefs, and not that of his constituents.

At the end of the day, I don't believe Obama is using his Executive Orders in the right manner. He's not abusing them (Really no direct law), but they would have been better off as a list of "forceful" suggestions that Congress needs to address. The US government does run on a system of checks and balances, and the obedience of this system helps keep the government going.

The amount of stupid and idiotic bills that I see coming up are annoying. De Leon's ammo permit bill, another bill that wanted to tax ammunition. Feinstein's assertion that her expertise on firearms has come from looking up pictures of guns, to progress to the fact that we should ban AR's and possibly some handguns.