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Is science a religion?
#21
silly Wrote:Do you believe that there is a distinction in probability between the possible truth of the claims that "humans cannot fly", that "Jonah lived in a whale for three days", and that "men are from Mars while women are from Jupiter"?

You could say that with infinite time and infinite space the probability of such things happening are 100%. Smile

But yes, I believe you can determine the probability of things that can be observed, however just because something is improbable or probable does not mean it did not or did not happen. I'm not trying to defend biblical claims (I'm more of an ancient astronaut theorist personally), merely that no matter how strongly denied by modern thinking they *may* be true. I would expect no more, and no less evidence about such events listed in the bible to exist today.

Quote: 
Formally, If a claim is not testable, then the truth of it cannot be verified, and it cannot be accepted. It's possible that it could still be true, but there is no reason to believe that it is. There exists a "burden of proof", and all positive claims must provide sufficient evidence in order to be accepted as true. Without evidence/proof, there is no way to distinguish between the likelihood of any claim.

I don't particularly know, but this point does not help your argument. It is important that you recognize that if there is not sufficient evidence for something, there does not exist a compelling rational reason to believe it.

We can not prove that black holes exist (that I am aware of), is there any rational reason to believe they exist? There is plenty of evidence that religious mythology was true, even enough to convince *most* people in the world. Simply because most scientists do not accept the evidence as conclusive proof, does not mean they are false, it just means they cannot be definitively proved as true or false.

Quote:There is no rational reason to believe that two coins can magically transform into three, there is only pure faith. There is no evidence that things like that actually happen. Also, being able to test something does not make it true, it just makes it possible to determine whether or not it is true.

So, if I were to take 10,000,000,000,000,000 lbs of shit and add 10,000,000,000,000,000 lbs of shit to it, most scientists would say very quickly, oh you will end up with 20,000,000,000,000,000 lbs of shit. This however is itself an untestable claim, scientists however have lots of *faith* in their mathematical reasoning. It takes faith to conclude that 1+1 will always = 2, making it a system dependent faith. It may be true, but to accept it as true, a belief must be formed, it is beliefs that require faith, not truth. If science is the pursuit of truth, it can only be so through establishing accepted beliefs. If religion is considered a pursuit of truth, then it is also done through establishing accepted beliefs. Like I said earlier, the sources and methodology differ, but the goal is the same.

Quote:How so? Rationality involves logically consistent beliefs, it requires logic and reasoning.

Logic and reasoning themselves are tools used to determine where to put one's faith. Belief in a religion also requires logic and reasoning (you may say incorrect logic ans reason, but nevertheless).

Quote:I made a claim that science and religion definitely can be mutually exclusive concepts, and if you want to dispute that, then I can provide evidence to back up my claim.

I am not sold yet, I would like to see this evidence.

Quote:So you think that scientific data can accurately depict objective truth?

I would propose that all data depicts objective truth. The fuzziness is in our extraction of information from the data.


Quote:In what way does reasoned logic require faith?

I would say that if you were to add 2 coins together all day long, and they did not once equaled three. It would take faith to presume that they will *never* equal three. Extrapolation requires faith. With religious people their faith is not determined by experiments but rather by ancestral records and history. There must be a distinction between the beliefs that are held, and the processes used to facilitate the existence of any beliefs.  It is impossible to make a scientific extrapolation without the faith in math.
"Most people think time is like a river, that flows swift and sure in one direction. But I have seen the face of time, and I can tell you, they are wrong. Time is an ocean in a storm."

Messages In This Thread
Is science a religion? - by Spartacus - Jan 11 2012, 03:50 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by pTK - Jan 11 2012, 05:17 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Pishtim - Jan 11 2012, 07:54 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Schlacko - Jan 12 2012, 12:47 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 12 2012, 02:18 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Schlacko - Jan 12 2012, 03:08 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by pTK - Jan 12 2012, 03:12 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by silly - Jan 12 2012, 06:34 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 12 2012, 08:17 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by silly - Jan 12 2012, 01:42 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 12 2012, 09:20 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by pTK - Jan 12 2012, 11:15 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by SpartanOnLSD - Jan 12 2012, 11:35 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 13 2012, 02:59 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by PaSS - Jan 13 2012, 04:04 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by pTK - Jan 13 2012, 04:20 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Pishtim - Jan 13 2012, 05:27 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by silly - Jan 13 2012, 05:35 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 13 2012, 04:33 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Canister - Jan 13 2012, 08:30 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by PaSS - Jan 13 2012, 10:49 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by PaSS - Jan 14 2012, 12:40 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by silly - Jan 24 2012, 02:26 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 24 2012, 03:31 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by silly - Jan 25 2012, 05:12 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 25 2012, 07:34 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Canister - Jan 25 2012, 06:54 PM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Pishtim - Jan 26 2012, 01:16 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Canister - Jan 26 2012, 01:36 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by PaSS - Jan 26 2012, 01:44 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Canister - Jan 26 2012, 01:46 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by PaSS - Jan 26 2012, 01:47 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 26 2012, 05:53 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by silly - Jan 26 2012, 08:48 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by naive - Jan 26 2012, 09:21 AM
RE: Is science a religion? - by Canister - Jan 26 2012, 05:13 PM

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