I'm too bad at CS:S to be labeled as a stacker.

Just sayin'.

I'm too bad at CS:S to be labeled as a stacker.

Just sayin'.

Confirming.

Hey tea,

Completely disagree with the "justified rule" ignoring an admin.  Trying to lawyer it up in a video game.

Lawyer it up? If anything lawyers have to accept the rules/laws as they are, I gave a suggestion which was in opposition of the current rule. It's not about arguing for the sake of arguing, it's about arguing for the sake of fairness.

All of the admins on the servers are here because they have been deemed trustworthy/mature to use good judgement in enforcing the servers

Yes.

1 rule being exploiting the game.  Another rule being exploiting the map.  Consistently joining ct on aztec on t italy is exploiting a weakness of the map to your advantage.

I made two points, one of which was that players should not be punished for "ignoring admins", but only for ignoring justifiable rules. With the "ignoring admins" rule, players could get banned for not complying with virtually anything that an admin wanted them to do. It's like being able to be punished by a police officer for refusing to strip naked and do a back-flip. How can you not see the problem with this?

The other point was regarding whether or not ruplayer was consistent with "unstacking". I'm not very adamant about this point anymore, because I admit what counts as "stacking" can be open to some degree of different interpretation.

I don't have a problem when an admin is abiding by a demonstrably justifiable rule and I'm sure you could justify why team stacking should not be allowed. For example: "it's fairer for the majority of players who don't stack".

Not really relevant: But it would be debatable that this reason is sufficient to override the freedom of the other players who like to choose their team themselves. I don't think it is. Team stacking is not on the same level of exploitation as hacking, or taking advantage of genuinely broken sections of a map.

I disagree with saying that you can't balance certain maps because I have done it.  It just takes the right mix of good and bad players to create a fair round.  I usually try to guilt trip a stacking friend and a lot times it just takes that 1-personality to get a team to win on the hard side.

Seems possible to me.

On a daily basis it seems I refer players to come to war-lords.net when they accuse me of admin abuse.  Before I was admin I would get switched all the time to balance the team.  I thought it funny or a compliment.  People get butt-hurt way to easy.  Your not a good player if the only way you can do well is play the easy side of the map and get high kpds.  Unfortunately, most of the Top 30 in wL stack.

You may not mind being switched in that way but plenty of people do. Yeah, a lot of the time it is a compliment. Still, many would like to be in more control of what happens to them.

Uncle leo

I also wanted to share my input, since I was on mill at that time. You can clearly see that I said the teams weren't stacked. They weren't. T's had been making a consistent comeback over CT's for three rounds. I was on CT and found it challenging to push back the other team. CT's were in no way easily running over the T team.

Looking at the original pic: http://rcupload.com/images/AEGq.jpg
There were 12 people on CT with more kills than deaths (10 or so players), or the same amount of kills as deaths (1-2 players), compared to the 5 people on T with more kills than deaths. On average the kdr of the players those players on Ct was significantly higher than those players on T. It doesn't look extremely stacked to me, but it still looks stacked, and the teams could have been balanced.

Hey Bison,

When a team is leading though score, that doesn't necessarily mean it's stacked. I consider a team balanced when most players on both teams die every round. If admins were to continue to move players in order to force a victory on the losing team then we'd actually be the ones stacking teams.

Makes sense, but there can be those few players on one team who can make a big difference (e.g. those boon/chun/jack monroe type players).

Hey Matt,

Team stacking management is up to the admins of the server and I will stand by ruplayer's decision in this, and any other admins in this case.

We have tried auto team balancing features in the past and most of them don't work as well as you would think. I'm sure JackMonroe can vouch for this in the early days when it use to run.

I would think that we stand behind someone when they have a justified position, not because they're an admin.

What about a vote which can be initiated to "balance" the teams when enough people think that they are stacked? This seems like a very good idea to me.

Disagree completely with you Silly.  Refer to MOTD:

While playing on the War-Lords gaming network you agree to abide by these rules. Any breaking of these rules will result in disciplinary action.
Team Stacking
People who intentionally teamstack to harvest points will have either their points adjusted, points completely reset, or gameme tracking disabled for their account.

Don't Cheat
People who cheat in online games are only cheating themselves. All cheating will get you is a permanent ban from the War-Lords gaming servers, no questions asked. Correspondence will seldom be entered into on this subject - just don't do it!

The following things are not permitted on the War-Lords servers and will result in swift punishment:
Hacking.
Exploiting the server or game.
Exploiting the map.
Ignoring game objectives.
Deliberate team killing.
Deliberate team flashing.
Mic and Chat spamming.
Inappropriate sprays. Shock sprays and hardcore porn is not allowed.
Inappropriate language or names (General cussing in moderation is allowed).
Impersonating a Admin.
Linking to cheat, shock or inappropriate websites.

If you're unsure about anything ask an admin.

Read older abuse threads to see that admins don't and aren't aloud to get away with bloody murder, i.e. justified-is just a lie to harass admins and do what you want. (you is not directed personally at Silly just players that don't like "authority")

If you don't like rules play on private servers or "free" servers with no MOTD/Admin.  Most servers have rules to "control" players behaviors in the GAME.

Matt isn't saying ruplayer is right because he is an admin.  He is saying that admins are justified to team balance in similar cases.

I interpret your suggestions as to make admins "gun shy"/restricted to what they are able to do.  We are highly scrutinized on a daily basis.  We are one of the few severs that are "player rights focused" meaning that we hold admins accountable for their actions/decisions.  We aren't the 1%, "the man," "the system," or whatever authority that people gripe about.

Feeling de ja vu in this thread.  Please refrain from drawing this out into a philosophical discussion. 

Disagree completely with you Silly.  Refer to MOTD:

While playing on the War-Lords gaming network you agree to abide by these rules. Any breaking of these rules will result in disciplinary action.
Team Stacking
People who intentionally teamstack to harvest points will have either their points adjusted, points completely reset, or gameme tracking disabled for their account.

Don't Cheat
People who cheat in online games are only cheating themselves. All cheating will get you is a permanent ban from the War-Lords gaming servers, no questions asked. Correspondence will seldom be entered into on this subject - just don't do it!

The following things are not permitted on the War-Lords servers and will result in swift punishment:
Hacking.
Exploiting the server or game.
Exploiting the map.
Ignoring game objectives.
Deliberate team killing.
Deliberate team flashing.
Mic and Chat spamming.
Inappropriate sprays. Shock sprays and hardcore porn is not allowed.
Inappropriate language or names (General cussing in moderation is allowed).
Impersonating a Admin.
Linking to cheat, shock or inappropriate websites.

If you're unsure about anything ask an admin.

What about it? I don't think you understood what I was saying.

Read older abuse threads to see that admins don't and aren't aloud to get away with bloody murder, i.e. justified-is just a lie to harass admins and do what you want. (you is not directed personally at Silly just players that don't like "authority")

I gather you're trying imply that I am the same? If you're not then no worries, but if you are, you are misrepresenting me, because that's not my intention at all.

If you don't like rules play on private servers or "free" servers with no MOTD/Admin.  Most servers have rules to "control" players behaviors in the GAME

Misrepresenting me. I don't have a problem with justified rules (all of those rules in the MOTD are fair), and nor do I have a problem when an admin follows those justified rules. I have a problem when people give the reason that someone was banned as "ignoring an admin", instead of "ignoring justifiable rule".

It says in the MOTD the reasonable penalty for stacking, but when people "ignore an admin", they get a harsher penalty which I don't think is justified. 

I interpret your suggestions as to make admins "gun shy"/restricted to what they are able to do.  We are highly scrutinized on a daily basis.  We are one of the few severs that are "player rights focused" meaning that we hold admins accountable for their actions/decisions.  We aren't the 1%, "the man," "the system," or whatever authority that people gripe about.

Misrepresenting me again. I don't see you as "the system" or anything like that, as a whole, I just see you as a group of people who are trying to fairly run gaming servers.

Do you think admins should be able to act on any personal whim, or that they should follow a list of reasonable
guidelines?

Banning someone for "ignoring an admin" does not have a valid justification. What's wrong with ignoring an admin?

Perhaps the admin was enforcing a rule, and someone repeatedly broke that rule?

Fine. Then that person was punished for repeatedly "breaking a rule", not for "ignoring an admin".

Feeling de ja vu in this thread.  Please refrain from drawing this out into a philosophical discussion.

It was your choice to respond to this thread.

[naive]

Silly, if an admin says like.. rush b.. and you rush a. That's not grounds for punishment or anything. Only ignoring admins when it comes to something pertaining to the rules of the server would it be punished. Almost the only case in which I ever see punishment for "ignoring admin" being utilized is in these team switching cases. Everything else can be handled directly based on the specific rule they broke(mute/slay/etc). There's no "lock person to team" option so if they want to try to override the admins team placement by just ignoring and switching back and forth, it can be very annoying to combat and balance teams. I think the way we all interpret the rule of ignoring admin is pretty much the same way you are saying you want it to be, it's actually kind of more specific the the name leads you to believe.

My point is your trying to change the rules to confront a problem that doesn't exist.

Your poking at ignoring admins is not a valid reason to be punished, but ignore that the case you are using as the example the admin was enforcing a rule.  99% of the time ignoring admin is when they notify the player they are violating the rule.  The other 1% the admin is usually relieved of his privileges, as you elaborate and naive reinforces.

Your tone implies a lot.  I know my reaction is all probably because me not caring for your writing style or tone. I would say my tone is very abrasive in my responses, but your trying to identify a problem that isn't there.  This is irritating because ru and myself put up with a lot of shit on a daily basis and when we try to bring civility to the game these admin abuse threads come, mostly unwarranted. 

If you read old abuse threads you would see when admins overstep their bounds root/seniors correct the problem and a new precedent is set.

Its de ja vu, because I feel you take everything far to literal and you don't see the intent behind what is written.  Point in case, your response to Matt misses his intent completely.

when i join server, i look into the score board and join the losing team. i increase  8-12% the chance of team to win. i dont really balance the team when i play 16-3, 15-4 thats not a bad score at all, if we balance the score all the time then we lost the spirit of the game. most players on 24/7 dust move there selves to a losing team because of the reason to be on top of the score board or maybe matured enough to play this game.

once admin moved you to a losing team, be proud that he knows that youre good,or maybe he just want to fck you more.

on his case, he wants to join t side but the team is full. then ruplayer moved him into t side and he keep killing him self every round to move to ct team, hmmm, i think he tried to show ruplayer that he made a bad decission on mill map to balance the team thats why he act like  smart on nuke map.

8-12%, lol.  More like -2%

[Assassin]

when i join server, i look into the score board and join the losing team. i increase  8-12% the chance of team to win.

hmm 8-12%?
well i increase it from 0 to 25%, and from 0 to 99% as soon as i press F11.
no bragging its the truth