If you die by a P90, then you were too close to start with, so this thread is still worthless...lol.
At a distance, he's not spraying—he's single-clicking in order to kill you.
At close range, he's ball's to the wall spraying to see you die, as you are to him with whatever weapon is presently available.

Altering the mechanics of the game because some kid is crying about being mowed down in Office DM with a P90 is senseless.
Gimmie a Para (M249 b) and I'll do the exact same thing as I would with the P90, with better long-range Headshot accuracy and twice the rounds.

We should ban those too.
And TMPs, because of such a fast reload speed that you can essentially lay-down a flurry of lead.
And Mac10s, because they're the shittiest gun in the game with the highest Random-HS-Percentage.
And the AutoNoob Cannon, because it's lame.
And the shotty, because it pumps too slow and there's better tactical shotguns out there that don't take a full second to rechamber a round.
And then ban autosnipers, because that's a long distance P90.
And the FAMAS, cause it's too good at long range HS and sucks balls at close range.

Should we just have all the servers be pistols?
Not the Desert Eagle though—we'll have to restrict 2-3 to a team, because by the time we're finished restricting all these fuckin' weapons, the Deagle will be the AWP of the pistol server.

You should restrict the knife too. That shit is just too weak. And the nade, cause a real nade blows limbs off and kills people dead, one shot. This fake shit just stains the ground...

Negative.

If you ever played with the p90 in Source before the update, it was absolute garbage. Probably the worst SMG, next to the UMP-45.

After the update everyone's talking about, you're looking at errant spray shots that can kill you and headshot you from across the map. Nobody tries to accurately aim or single-shot with the p90 at a distance, they're running and spraying it and getting random headshots with ease. When I can go into Office 24/7 and run havoc using only a p90, you can see how badly it's been altered and Bison knows this. If FF was on, people would be TK'ing like mad.

There's nothing called being to close, you have to close in at some points. At close range the p90 is an insanely accurately headshot seeking gun to the point that nothing can compete with it. I'm not spraying at this point with my gun, I'm taking well-aimed quick flick shots. But in most situations you'll be killed by an errant headshot that someone's not even aim'ing with.

Para can't even compare to the p90 anymore.

The alternative is to change the damage, spread, and accuracy values of the p90 to make it a more fair weapon. Bison suggested this and I would see this as a solution as well.

If you think the p90 isn't OP, then you haven't been playing Counter-Strike long, and if you don't think we've lost good players already because of a 50 slot server and the errant usage of p90's you're mistaken. The majority of people that use the p90 are no-steamers anyways and they'll stick around because we're one of the only no-steam communities out there. P90's have taken a lot of skill out of Counter-Strike and has infuriated many of the long-term players with it's buff while everything else got a nerf. I've run a few polls in Office before and they've passed, even with GWB on (And they're notorious for only using the p90).

If this wasn't a 32+ slot server, we wouldn't need this. But for some reason we upped it to 50, and it's freaking chaos. You hit a corner and instead of a reasonable amount of guys, you have 10-15 people blasting away with you. In most situations, a few accurate shots and a bunch of wildly inaccurate p90 fire. You're staring into a wall of bullets and many of them errant p90 shots that will probably headshot you. The server's are entirely way too crowded with people and it's becoming a lot more like COD rather than Counter-Strike.

Double post

That is the point of this thread. The last big CS:S update did that. Before you would not randomly get headshot'd across the map. Pretty sure they did the update to push people to CS:GO (an epic fail of a game). I see many players just strafing the corner with a p90ing and randomly getting 2-3 headshots a time. It is amusing because they hold left-click from a second from clearing the corner and hold it until they fire 50 rnds and repeat. I am always a firm supporter of having unrestricted weapons, but then again I am for FF on, which most players in our servers could not handle. With FF on it would be extremely entertaining watching the horde rushing with p90s and then commit fratricide on half of the team.

I understand chun's and devious' sentiments towards the p90er's. Since, the AWP and Auto are restricted I think it is a fair request and I don't think it would kill the server population (or hurt it). Or just lift the restrictions on all weapons. Either way it wouldn't kill the server population. Even though past attempts I am told did.

Also, this.

You obviously don't get it. It's ideal right now. They are MUCH of a loss like any member of our community. Nothing personal, but I'd rather let single you go than 20/30% of our population that will automatically mean more downtime in each 24 hr cycle.

well first off, no one truly knows what ideal is espcially if the server is always changning every few months. and i do think losing a core/dedicated member like a forum member is much MORE of a loss than some random pubber who cannot play without the p90 for a few rounds. once again plenty of players will still get the opportunity to get p90. aks/m4s/awps are still the most popular guns. your chance of getting a p90 is at around 70-90 percent. so really only a few people would not be able to get a p90 who intended to. this is not banning p90s. and 8 per team is just a proposed idea. i dont believe for one bit that 20/30% of the population will leave because there was a round they could not get a p90. i also speak out for the server and for the love of the game. look at our pubs. would you have quality or quantitiy? ye we have 50 people playing but the gameplay is just terrible nowdays. most people will resort to camping behind choke points. good players take advantage of spawn and reach these choke points quickly but cant do it now because everywhere you go theres 7 people and u are alone. CS is a game of strategy and its being killed with the 50 slots. i think wL is a big part of the css pub community and i think we should shape the community in the right way. there isnt much teamwork or smart plying happening until the end of the rounds when the beginners who are too scared t approach the choke points are left

Double post

If you die by a P90, then you were too close to start with, so this thread is still worthless...lol.
At a distance, he's not spraying—he's single-clicking in order to kill you.
At close range, he's ball's to the wall spraying to see you die, as you are to him with whatever weapon is presently available.

Altering the mechanics of the game because some kid is crying about being mowed down in Office DM with a P90 is senseless.
Gimmie a Para (M249 b) and I'll do the exact same thing as I would with the P90, with better long-range Headshot accuracy and twice the rounds.

We should ban those too.
And TMPs, because of such a fast reload speed that you can essentially lay-down a flurry of lead.
And Mac10s, because they're the shittiest gun in the game with the highest Random-HS-Percentage.
And the AutoNoob Cannon, because it's lame.
And the shotty, because it pumps too slow and there's better tactical shotguns out there that don't take a full second to rechamber a round.
And then ban autosnipers, because that's a long distance P90.
And the FAMAS, cause it's too good at long range HS and sucks balls at close range.

Should we just have all the servers be pistols?
Not the Desert Eagle though—we'll have to restrict 2-3 to a team, because by the time we're finished restricting all these fuckin' weapons, the Deagle will be the AWP of the pistol server.

You should restrict the knife too. That shit is just too weak. And the nade, cause a real nade blows limbs off and kills people dead, one shot. This fake shit just stains the ground...

youve never seen anyone complain that a para has too much ammo? you could not do nearly the same thing. ever run and spraywith a para? also notice your movement speed with a para? a good player can get many kills with a para while a bad one cannot(meaning it takes SKILL). this is the case(THAT U NEED SKILL) for most guns including TMPS, MAC10s, deagles, shotys, and the famas. the reason why expeirenced players complain of p90 is because its ridiculously overpowered (THEy DONT REQUIRE SKILL). the para and ak and m4 all have relatively large recoil patterns even when standing still(SO U NEED SKILLS TO CONTROL THEM). the p90 does not even when running which is where the majority op factor is at. and all youre descriptions of the guns just lets us know you are inexperienced or trolling.. famas bad at close range?

Double post

If you restrict these can you please limit the amount of AKs and M4s too. Those guns are also pretty good, and anyone can get kills with them.

I see where you are coming from though. I hate it when a bad player uses an easy weapon, then procedes to trash talk about how bad you are for dying to him. I still don't think limiting P90s is a good idea though.

yes AKs and M4s are good, but only good players are good with them. an advanced player can wipe out 5-6 players in a round while a bad player probably 0-2. But when you look at a p90 anyone can easily spray down 2-4 people in a hallway with it. all your bullets go in a relatively small area when running and spraying. with a AK or M4 you would have to crouch and stop movement/become an easy target in hopes of spraying down 2-3 people. the pointis that AK/M4 require skills. skills fundamental to being good at CS (if you have played since 1.6 ud have appreciation for these skill sets which make cs whhat it is). p90 does not require skill and the proof is right in every server where all the novice players are becoming more dependent on p90s to get kills. i dont think theres anythin wrong with getting it but having ALL the bad players in a50 slot server just buying it and running around easily spraying down people is making the game bad. restricting 8-10 per team when i estimate around 15 per team buy is really not that bad.

I hope you all dont think im complaining because im afraid of people who p90. my KDratio is 3.4, i dont die often. my complaints stem from love of the game and the community and i see wL headed in a direction that is depleting the essentials of CS and turning it into a noobfest

I would love it if Bison would adjust the p90 back to pre-stupid update levels.

What I found funny with the p90 is that if you aim with it you miss more. Just aim chest level and spray.

I would love it if Bison would adjust the p90 back to pre-stupid update levels.

What I found funny with the p90 is that if you aim with it you miss more. Just aim chest level and spray.

I actually think that this is an even better idea than limiting the p90's.

I would love it if Bison would adjust the p90 back to pre-stupid update levels.

What I found funny with the p90 is that if you aim with it you miss more. Just aim chest level and spray.

is that possible? BTW i used to ues p90 before the update. it aint that bad. just a lil weaker than mp5 but more ammo.

+1 to limit/ban p90

[lin3ar]

^

If you want to flame, go take it to the appropriate section.

Modifying weapons? This sounds like a stupid idea, no, very stupid idea. I am against banning or limiting p90 and awp as well, but modifying any weapons in game sounds like I will stop playing it. Awp people like Tea, score a lot by just sitting in the long hall on office or ct spawn... and it's a fact, p90 rushers actually rush, and they are the only people in 80% of the time who get to kill you. I think doing what they do is actually noble. They are the only ones who stop "pro" players like you guys. "Pro" players who use a weapon that kills in one shot.

Modifying weapons? This sounds like a stupid idea, no, very stupid idea. I am against banning or limiting p90 and awp as well, but modifying any weapons in game sounds like I will stop playing it. Awp people like Tea, score a lot by just sitting in the long hall on office or ct spawn... and it's a fact, p90 rushers actually rush, and they are the only people in 80% of the time who get to kill you. I think doing what they do is actually noble. They are the only ones who stop "pro" players like you guys. "Pro" players who use a weapon that kills in one shot. Stop whining like helmut please.

stating to modify the p90 to how it USED to be. the game was a lot better before the update so i dont see how its stupid. and rushing can be done with any gun including AKs and M4s. p90s just make it EASY. you must really respect me cause i rush the hell out of choke points when i get the spawn. in reality rushing with a p90 is not noble.. its EASY. thats why they rush lol ITS JUST SO DAM EASY TO RUN N SPRAY WITH THAT GUN AND MOW DOWN A WHOLE TEAM!

None the less i did some observations and realized a limit of 8 p90s per team wouldnt do much. the vast majority of guns are still m4akawp and i found about 4-9 p90s per team during my 4 map session today.