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His time has come
#11
(Apr 23 2020, 03:16 AM)fAt Wrote: This one shows Alive rushing B rd 3, and not checking shit then decides to shoulder peek San window because gamesense.



ban this faggot
[-] The following 1 user Likes TopShelfSyM's post:
   hellomynameis
#12
(Apr 23 2020, 08:09 PM)PiN Wrote: I rarely post on forums but I figured I would give my input on this one since alive has been cheating for awhile now.  I was in this game and was almost certain alive was cheating. Watched the demo just to make sure and it is obvious he is walling and using aimbot. I understand it's hard for most admins on wl to catch cheaters due to lack of experience so ill go over 2 rounds where it might make sense to most.  The 3rd rnd clip fat posted is the most obvious to me even more then when he traces blackout around pit cause you can say he just got lucky or guessed right although that was very fishy as well. 3rd rnd he starts to run into b site while not clearing anything his walls pick up san in window, if you notice he pauses for a second because he can "see" san has an awp scoped on him so he pauses for split second and then decides to jiggle peek to get him to fire.  Jiggle peeking isnt uncommon for a good player with good game sense but its the fact he goes from full running not clearing anything to that split second pause for no reason.  If his game sense was good and he figured there was an awper window by chance he wouldnt of paused and then jiggle peeked he would have just done it.  So in this entire clip he cleared 0 angles while running into b except the 2 spots where cts played. there is also another round i believe its rd 11 or 12 where he has an ak towards the end of the rnd, gets 3 hs kills and its obvious he is aimbotting.  If someone wants to post the clip i can explain it if needed.  Bottom line is alive isn't great at hiding his cheats but to most admins on wl they're not gonna pick up on it. whether he gets banned or not really doesn't matter to me but just realize he will continue to cheat until hes banned because if kobe tried to ban him already it obviously didn't stop alive from cheating.

https://streamable.com/iccqie

"Watched the demo just to make sure and it is obvious he is walling and using aimbot."

"there is also another round i believe its rd 11 or 12 where he has an ak towards the end of the rnd, gets 3 hs kills and its obvious he is aimbotting."
#13
okay, first ill explain my methodology :

1. I have read the thread and posts of everyone to see what was the exact complaints of everyone
2. Downloaded the demo in question + 5 other demos of some of his best recent pugs on maps people aren't used to play.
3. Watched every single 1 on normal speed, with r_drawothermodels on, noted everything where there was a slight chance of evidence of cheating
4. Watched again those specific segments multiple times to make sure he did see the player (or not, or part of him) before firing at certain moments, if teamates called the enemy in question, if he heard him, if the radar showed him on the map, etc.
5. Conclusion after HOURS of gameplay reviewed i found absolutely 0 proof of him cheating either with a wallhack or a aimbot.

6. The ''proofs'' presented here are/can be easily explaned by common sense, why isnt he clearing everything when entering B ? Hello, his css ''competitive'' experience is wl pugs and other public servers, not ESEA-I or ESEA-M from back in the days, he will NOT do what people from high level of gaming  would do ever, because he isn't from these level of leagues, he takes shortcuts all the time that gets him killed all the time, he doesnt see dozens of players through wall or other textures (like smokes, except for one way smokes) all the time, he gets killed all the time because he doesnt know there is multiple players at a specific moment. How does he ''follow'' the player to long, its simple he doesn't, bomb was down over there, he had to go on the cross (and if you use common sense, there is also a good chance the ct is long and most likely pit, due to bomb position), he doesnt outright aim at the player in pit through texture, but under where the head would pop like any decent player would do and reacts to it, he doesn't follow said player through the ground perfectly (like he would if he was seeing him through it) either.

Thanks  to Stephanie for sharing additional clips (You could ban literally anyone if these instances were considered proofs).

My critic of basically everyone accusing him of cheating :

I think its simply just a good old case of mass hysteria/misinformation coupled with confirmation bias.

Some players are mad when losing, especially if its because of 1 player who is doing good in particular, even more if its someone they played a lot vs in the past and think they are better then said player. So they will go mentally the lazy way and believe/say that the player in question is cheating to protect their own ego.

If enough players do that behavior, other players will simply believe it because lots of players believes it, sometimes the players complaining have ''league exp'' so they take their words for it, so more and more players will believe said player is indeed cheating.

And i know its a hugely contributing factor, because ive heard dozens of people whine on the demos 24/7, about alive, it was really really anoying how lots of players said and im paraphrasing : ''ah its alive he must be cheating'' as an excuse when you did a bad play or he did a good play, or you were simply mad af and needed to protect your ego (i know ive been there Tongue).

I've been an admin a decent amount of time on (wL), i learned through the years playing here that people are lazy, they don't review demos and if they do they are LOOKING actively for any hint of a maybe of something to confirm their own bias against the person they are reviewing, they are extremely rarely objective and if they are they will post their concrete evidence in private or on forum and the player in question gets banned or they see that said player isn't cheating at all and dont waste admin's time. I don't know how many demo's ive reviewed on wl alone where there was absolutely 0 ways said players was cheating in any way, please in the future have some courtesy and try to review a demo or multiple demo first before doing baseless accusations.

When reviewing demo's, look for PROOFs not maybe's.

For his raise in stats, its extremely simple, he IMPROVED, he played a shit ton and he is tryharding, while playing mostly with awp which is the most skill less and stats buffing weapon in the game (28% this month), he listen to everyones calls, he uses sounds a lot, he uses all types of nades effectively (if compared to the average), his aim isn't the best, i played with and vs him a bunch before, he improved quite a lot. 0 of his stats are good indicators of him possibly cheating (he aint among the top players either), not reaching 1 kdr with deagle, hs % acc % aren't crazy overall and for specific weapons. He also plays a shit ton of CSS while trying hard RECENTLY, which is one of the only way you can actually improve in this game (hours played in general is meaningless, but a quantity of hours while trying your ass off does). Why do you believe people from leagues are better in general then typical players ? (https://war-lords.net/forum/thread-17335...#pid132867) It's from highly intensive, tryhard, sweat bands hours of gameplay, its from scrims, matches, playoffs, tournaments, its from caring about your stats (which includes winning) so you tryhard in pugs, its from hours of muscle memory in deathmatches or gungames,  its from all those things.

Also, it is EXTREMELY easier to play on (wL) rn, then let's say 3 or 4 years ago, where is billnose ? ghoul ? loopz ? Phoenix ? Keys ? Loki ? Other dozens of players that played relatively high level ? Even I stopped playing for a while too and i know i am extremely far from being among the best who touched this game (i miss ESEA so much lol). Well guess what, that influences the '' overall general value'' of RWS a lot, 16 or 17 rws from players 3 or 4 years ago if said player isnt leaving systematicly (or not joining vs actually good players) like lots of players are doing (especially ''good'' ones) is probably the equivalent of having 20 rws right now, 65 vs 65 rws pugs back then were common (even some over 70 vs 70 way before tournaments were a thing), gl ever getting that now. To use an example, its like if we were comparing stats from ESEA-I League to stats in M or O, oh that player has 120 adr in Open so he is better then someone 70 adr in invite.

Or a less extreme example would be if comparing stats of specific players who were both playing on (wL) and the now dead other pug réseau. By some magic, said players had much better stats on the other réseau where there wasn't as much ex-league players. Can you tell me with a straight face, 100 adr on each was of equal value ?

Or simply take the example of the tournaments we did on (wL), look up top players stats during these obviously they are much lower because the degree of competition was much higher.

I'd go as far as to say, Alive is definitively not cheating, i didnt find anything, on any of his best demos, on his best months, on the maps where its most obvious if someone is walling, and if you are reading this alive, i am sorry people are being so extremely toxic toward you while you are being a very chill dude in-game.

Obviously if players find further/actual proofs and submit it, it will be reviewed.

(There is also other aspects to consider that i didnt go in details like gun usage, did he buy a new pc or new gear, etc., but this post is very long already, so i'll stop there.)

Lastly helmut, does ghoul cheat ? Does the majority or the plurality of hundreds/thousands of different players you called a cheater in-game cheat ?






My gaming experience for new players or people that dont know me at all : i always played ''competitively'', because i wanted to be better then my older brother (not David), in every video game possible, mario kart, goldeneye, rise of nations, aoe 1 2 and 3, Age of Mythology, Star Wars:Battleground, super smash bros, conker, you name it. He started playing css, so i started playing css, he liked a particular extremely popular french gungame server where he was top5, i had to be top 1, lots of ex-cal french players were using that server to warm up before matches and scrims, and i was better then all of them (at least in the context of a hardcore, fast paced, no respawn gungame). He started scrimming so i started scrimming, then he dropped playing this game all together, i first played competitively ''officially'' in gungame ladder in twl, where we were number 1 with a 22-2 record the only season we played in it, i then i joined a team of friends played in eco league, we qualified to be playing eco-m, league died, we were still hungry for competitive matches, despite not knowing about anything really about leagues we joined ESEA league in season 7, by the time i started to play more seriously i pugged in leagues with other frenchies in open/im, tried to get into main but the language barrier was a big problem for me to find any team (there wasn't many french team either in main, we dont use the same english words for callouts in french and my accent was very thick), scrimmed dozens if not hundreds of time with and vs ESEA-I players because i was ''ringin''/subbing a lot for Icons of Vanity (one of the only french canadian teams by the end of ESEA on source, and two players i knew from the gungame were around them HeShe/ForGet) and because my teams no matter the seasons were never scared of competition, so i gained a lot of exp/knowledge through them and playing deagle only in esea pugs vs equal if not a lot better players like a maniac. Then ESEA on source died due to CSGO.

I was introduced to (wL) by a french ESEA buddy, i started by playing mostly deagle/pistol only like i used to do on ESEA for the nostalgia factor, then played a little bit more seriously when i noticed players from back in esea i recognized the names were also playing (like bill and ghoul) and legit proof'd enough people to know a lot were legit/relative high level, played thousands of pugs from there. Became admin, then organized tournaments, tried to organize a competitive pug system (10 rws server, competitive pugs, scrims) helped Crusader organize Asia tournaments, tried to help Caillou make his, played in all of em and finished either first or second in all of em (usually losing to bill or ghoul or netex or a combination of em in very close 16-14, 14-16 matches) except in the asian tournament for obvious reasons (still topfragged the only match played vs Riser), i extensively worked with in game stats to do leaderboards and tournaments stats, and i am also currently trying to organize my 6th tournament­.

Played on asia servers (250 ping +) or Europe (100+ ping) for a time in search of more challenge, played glock only, p228 only, dualies/5-7 only, shotguns only, smg only, scout only, hs only, krieg/aug only, headshots only on (wL) for the same reason (you can look up my weapon stats).

I would include lots of other stuff (like my hundreds of wins on pubg/other battle royale games, lanning a bit for Rise of Nation, and playing ogame/runescape back when i was in highschool, etc.), but this is starting to sound like a biography Tongue
[-] The following 3 users Like Ben-'s post:
   hellomynameis, Jesse W., Stephanie
#14
yano all of this kinda contradicts everything that WL has been doing lately. you sit here telling people to find concrete evidence but no one can ever be in alives moms basement with him to catch him in the act. your right maybe he doesnt have league experience, but neither do i but many peope on wl do, so i have adapted. i learn to check those corners EVERYTIME, i dont pick and choose when to check a corner. im not saying he is or isnt cheating like pin said idc if he gets banned. but then how can you ban melody? where is the concrete evidence on him? and why was he banned before proof was established? because netex is butt hurt? you watched 5 demos at extensive length as you say "Ben" but you couldnt take a look at why this kid is ALREADY banned? a kid that isnt proceeds? this is ridiculous. the admins are destroying this community. the cheaters with friends are allowed to play the not cheaters who upset someone get banned ... ( CARB, Melody) and this is just recently. do i have to literally hack alive's computer and find his cheats and screenshot it for you to believe it? but in melody's case Mr. Netex's word is enough. who allowed these admins this kind of power? TREAT EVERYONE THE SAME. kid got banned for 2 fishy plays.. in multiple pugs. ive seen 20 fishy plays from alive in one half. all im saying basically is unban melody until you have solid proof he cheats. or start banning anyone that gets accused. which would be everyone. let VAC handle the cheaters. PEAcE N3Rds
[-] The following 5 users Like icon.voices's post:
   Ben-, fAt, PiN, Soul, TopShelfSyM
#15
(Apr 26 2020, 05:03 AM)icon.voices Wrote: yano all of this kinda contradicts everything that WL has been doing lately. you sit here telling people to find concrete evidence but no one can ever be in alives moms basement with him to catch him in the act. your right maybe he doesnt have league experience, but neither do i but many peope on wl do, so i have adapted. i learn to check those corners EVERYTIME, i dont pick and choose when to check a corner. im not saying he is or isnt cheating like pin said idc if he gets banned. but then how can you ban melody? where is the concrete evidence on him? and why was he banned before proof was established? because netex is butt hurt? you watched 5 demos at extensive length as you say "Ben" but you couldnt take a look at why this kid is ALREADY banned? a kid that isnt proceeds? this is ridiculous. the admins are destroying this community. the cheaters with friends are allowed to play the not cheaters who upset someone get banned ... ( CARB, Melody) and this is just recently. do i have to literally hack alive's computer and find his cheats and screenshot it for you to believe it? but in melody's case Mr. Netex's word is enough. who allowed these admins this kind of power? TREAT EVERYONE THE SAME. kid got banned for 2 fishy plays.. in multiple pugs. ive seen 20 fishy plays from alive in one half. all im saying basically is unban melody until you have solid proof he cheats. or start banning anyone that gets accused. which would be everyone. let VAC handle the cheaters. PEAcE N3Rds

This is a fair criticism, i only recently came back to source, in term of adminship i am currently retired of my own choice, i was asked by a fellow admin to review this case in particular, so i did.

I will be reviewing Melody's case monday (cause im working sunday, and these reviews are very time consumming), if my conclusion are similar to what i said about alive's case i will share it with everyone, if i find proofs i'll do the same.

I am also in the dark for the exact reasons CARB is perm banned or temporarly banned ? (Players used to do much worse then what i saw or heard him doing, and nothing was ever held against them or it was overturned by higher ups back then)
[-] The following 1 user Likes Ben-'s post:
   icon.voices
#16
^
#17
Melody posted the the ak clip i was talking about. Now I know the first two kills arent worth explaining because people just won't understand and will argue. If you understand cs a little and watch the last kill where he sprays through dd mid and is about a guns length below the guys feet but gets a head shot you realize that isnt natural. Now if youre an admin on here with any kind of experience you should realize this a step further to be near impossible. Obviously he was aimbotting the whole game and thats the hardest thing for people to pick up on if a player has it set right but alive messes up here when hes spraying and it is completely obvious. For people who don't understand aimbotting (in most cases) the longer you hold the key down (most likely your fire key) the closer the recoil is adjusted to pull towards the head or whatever you have it set to. If youre spraying a guns length below a guys feet with no aim assist to pull the recoil up there is no way the natural recoil of the game goes that high to register a hs. Seeing how the player wasn't jumping just strafing the hitbox wouldn't of been thrown off that much either. If anyone recreates that clip and posts it on the forums i will never post again and personally apologize to alive but im 99.9% sure that its impossible to do without aim assist. If you are going to argue that it is then post a clip of you doing it don't just tell me its possible.

Icon makes a good point, if the criteria of someone getting banned is based off 100% proof as it seems to be in this case then every clip (for the most part) can be argued and players should not be getting banned for far less. Saying there is 0 proof of alive cheating just isn't true it's opinion and you can definitely say that about melody or probably a lot of previous players who were banned. If WL goes by we need 100% certainty that someone is cheating then Melody should be unbanned and again along with im sure other players (I haven't been around that long on here to name anyone else). If WL goes by the "eye test" of trusted experienced members then they should be explaining the bans not just "hes banned". Also alive running into b, not checking anything and stopping when his xhair gets up to window because he sees someone through the wall and then proceeding to jiggle peek the awper he saw (3rd rnd btw, no history of the player being there) is not a random player doing something random its a random player doing something obvious. I didn't bring up stats at all but Alives stats haven't improved in the last 3 years they have improved in the last 3 months so any talk of "good players" who used to play doesn't relate to this thread.
[-] The following 2 users Like PiN's post:
   icon.voices, Soul
#18
(Apr 26 2020, 05:52 AM)PiN Wrote: Melody posted the the ak clip i was talking about. Now I know the first two kills arent worth explaining because people just won't understand and will argue. If you understand cs a little and watch the last kill where he sprays through dd mid and is about a guns length below the guys feet but gets a head shot you realize that isnt natural.  Now if youre an admin on here with any kind of experience you should realize this a step further to be near impossible.  Obviously he was aimbotting the whole game and thats the hardest thing for people to pick up on if a player has it set right but alive messes up here when hes spraying and it is completely obvious. For people who don't understand aimbotting (in most cases) the longer you hold the key down (most likely your fire key) the closer the recoil is adjusted to pull towards the head or whatever you have it set to. If youre spraying a guns length below a guys feet with no aim assist to pull the recoil up there is no way the natural recoil of the game goes that high to register a hs.  Seeing how the player wasn't jumping just strafing the hitbox wouldn't of been thrown off that much either.  If anyone recreates that clip and posts it on the forums i will never post again and personally apologize to alive but im 99.9% sure that its impossible to do without aim assist.  If you are going to argue that it is then post a clip of you doing it don't just tell me its possible.

Icon makes a good point, if the criteria of someone getting banned is based off 100% proof as it seems to be in this case then every clip (for the most part) can be argued and players should not be getting banned for far less. Saying there is 0 proof of alive cheating just isn't true it's opinion and you can definitely say that about melody or probably a lot of previous players who were banned.  If WL goes by we need 100% certainty that someone is cheating then Melody should be unbanned and again along with im sure other players (I haven't been around that long on here to name anyone else).  If WL goes by the "eye test" of trusted experienced members then they should be explaining the bans not just "hes banned".  Also alive running into b, not checking anything and stopping when his xhair gets up to window because he sees someone through the wall and then proceeding to jiggle peek the awper he saw (3rd rnd btw, no history of the player being there) is not a random player doing something random its a random player doing something obvious.  I didn't bring up stats at all but Alives stats haven't improved in the last 3 years they have improved in the last 3 months so any talk of "good players" who used to play doesn't relate to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpmuSErJr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_LvaNoXos

I know both clips aren't with an ak, but look where i am aiming while running holding w and a or d.

Still a lot of headshots in even less bullets then him.

Or even better https://youtu.be/01SVlzKZhkY?t=227 here on this clip i am doing exactly the same thing as him but even more efficiently with an ak with 100 ping +

Please report me and get me banned asap.
#19
(Apr 26 2020, 06:17 AM)Ben- Wrote:
(Apr 26 2020, 05:52 AM)PiN Wrote: Melody posted the the ak clip i was talking about. Now I know the first two kills arent worth explaining because people just won't understand and will argue. If you understand cs a little and watch the last kill where he sprays through dd mid and is about a guns length below the guys feet but gets a head shot you realize that isnt natural.  Now if youre an admin on here with any kind of experience you should realize this a step further to be near impossible.  Obviously he was aimbotting the whole game and thats the hardest thing for people to pick up on if a player has it set right but alive messes up here when hes spraying and it is completely obvious. For people who don't understand aimbotting (in most cases) the longer you hold the key down (most likely your fire key) the closer the recoil is adjusted to pull towards the head or whatever you have it set to. If youre spraying a guns length below a guys feet with no aim assist to pull the recoil up there is no way the natural recoil of the game goes that high to register a hs.  Seeing how the player wasn't jumping just strafing the hitbox wouldn't of been thrown off that much either.  If anyone recreates that clip and posts it on the forums i will never post again and personally apologize to alive but im 99.9% sure that its impossible to do without aim assist.  If you are going to argue that it is then post a clip of you doing it don't just tell me its possible.

Icon makes a good point, if the criteria of someone getting banned is based off 100% proof as it seems to be in this case then every clip (for the most part) can be argued and players should not be getting banned for far less. Saying there is 0 proof of alive cheating just isn't true it's opinion and you can definitely say that about melody or probably a lot of previous players who were banned.  If WL goes by we need 100% certainty that someone is cheating then Melody should be unbanned and again along with im sure other players (I haven't been around that long on here to name anyone else).  If WL goes by the "eye test" of trusted experienced members then they should be explaining the bans not just "hes banned".  Also alive running into b, not checking anything and stopping when his xhair gets up to window because he sees someone through the wall and then proceeding to jiggle peek the awper he saw (3rd rnd btw, no history of the player being there) is not a random player doing something random its a random player doing something obvious.  I didn't bring up stats at all but Alives stats haven't improved in the last 3 years they have improved in the last 3 months so any talk of "good players" who used to play doesn't relate to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpmuSErJr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_LvaNoXos

I know both clips aren't with an ak, but look where i am aiming while running holding w and a or d.

Still a lot of headshots in even less bullets then him.

Or even better https://youtu.be/01SVlzKZhkY?t=227 here on this clip i am doing exactly the same thing as him but even more efficiently with an ak with 100 ping +

Please report me and get me banned asap.
I don't know if you were looking at the right clip but none of the clips you posted were even close to what i'm talking about...
the first clip you were shooting at knee length or above which I would never questions because obviously you can get hs from there.
second clip again shooting at the feet except for the last guy which you did not headshot you just killed him which is entirely possible to kill someone by spraying below the feet which was not my point.
last clip you were shooting at the feet or above on all the players except the last guy you WERE shooting at close to but not exactly the same distance below the feet and you were nowhere near the head which proves my point.


I'll be happy to review any more clips you would like to send in.
[-] The following 2 users Like PiN's post:
   icon.voices, Soul
#20
(Apr 26 2020, 06:25 AM)PiN Wrote:
(Apr 26 2020, 06:17 AM)Ben- Wrote:
(Apr 26 2020, 05:52 AM)PiN Wrote: Melody posted the the ak clip i was talking about. Now I know the first two kills arent worth explaining because people just won't understand and will argue. If you understand cs a little and watch the last kill where he sprays through dd mid and is about a guns length below the guys feet but gets a head shot you realize that isnt natural.  Now if youre an admin on here with any kind of experience you should realize this a step further to be near impossible.  Obviously he was aimbotting the whole game and thats the hardest thing for people to pick up on if a player has it set right but alive messes up here when hes spraying and it is completely obvious. For people who don't understand aimbotting (in most cases) the longer you hold the key down (most likely your fire key) the closer the recoil is adjusted to pull towards the head or whatever you have it set to. If youre spraying a guns length below a guys feet with no aim assist to pull the recoil up there is no way the natural recoil of the game goes that high to register a hs.  Seeing how the player wasn't jumping just strafing the hitbox wouldn't of been thrown off that much either.  If anyone recreates that clip and posts it on the forums i will never post again and personally apologize to alive but im 99.9% sure that its impossible to do without aim assist.  If you are going to argue that it is then post a clip of you doing it don't just tell me its possible.

Icon makes a good point, if the criteria of someone getting banned is based off 100% proof as it seems to be in this case then every clip (for the most part) can be argued and players should not be getting banned for far less. Saying there is 0 proof of alive cheating just isn't true it's opinion and you can definitely say that about melody or probably a lot of previous players who were banned.  If WL goes by we need 100% certainty that someone is cheating then Melody should be unbanned and again along with im sure other players (I haven't been around that long on here to name anyone else).  If WL goes by the "eye test" of trusted experienced members then they should be explaining the bans not just "hes banned".  Also alive running into b, not checking anything and stopping when his xhair gets up to window because he sees someone through the wall and then proceeding to jiggle peek the awper he saw (3rd rnd btw, no history of the player being there) is not a random player doing something random its a random player doing something obvious.  I didn't bring up stats at all but Alives stats haven't improved in the last 3 years they have improved in the last 3 months so any talk of "good players" who used to play doesn't relate to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrpmuSErJr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY_LvaNoXos

I know both clips aren't with an ak, but look where i am aiming while running holding w and a or d.

Still a lot of headshots in even less bullets then him.

Or even better https://youtu.be/01SVlzKZhkY?t=227 here on this clip i am doing exactly the same thing as him but even more efficiently with an ak with 100 ping +

Please report me and get me banned asap.
I don't know if you were looking at the right clip but none of the clips you posted were even close to what i'm talking about...
the first clip you were shooting at knee length or above which I would never questions because obviously you can get hs from there.
second clip you were shooting at the feet or above on all the players except the last guy you WERE shooting at close to but not exactly the same distance below the feet and you were nowhere near the head which proves my point.
last clip again shooting at the feet except for the last guy which again you did not headshot you just killed him which is entirely possible to kill someone by spraying below the feet which was not my point.

I'll be happy to review any more clips you would like to send in.

Freeze frame exactly when he killed the guy at mid door, you will see its approximatively at the same height i was on the third guy on the ak clip.

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