Re: Space Shuttle Enterprise files again

Really killing more than 1 million Iraqi is some thing to be proud about....
& Just so you know, you have no right to paint other peoples future, it's just not of your business, Iraq was a very advanced country, now it's 50 years late comparing to neighboring countries , & US gov is still stealing the country's oil.

i agree with mindhacker

You don't think that Hitler existed? And also that he didn't order the extermination of Jewish people?

he did exist but like neptune said: "to make an excuse to justify the occupation of Palestine,"

And you think that September 11 was something that the Americans did to themselves?

yea, but not the American pplz it was their government(sacrifices for the greater good) but i guarantee u it wasn't for the pplz good.

But no, I don't think that getting rid of Hitler was a mistake, and the same goes for Hussein. These people were creating way too much suffering for way too many people.

what about now silly? cuz i think pplz are suffering more than they were before...

Well I don't agree with your first two points, but I do agree that the Iraqis have been suffering from the war. I already said that I don't like how the Americans have acted in the war. The only thing I was saying that I agreed with was getting rid of Hussein and his regime.

Re: Space Shuttle Enterprise files again

The whole idea of "Hitler" was to make an excuse to justify the occupation of Palestine

Actually, Hitler was a person who led a system that was responsible for the killing of about 6-7 million people based on delusional ideas. You can have ideas about the Israel-Palestine conflict, but that doesn't change the fact that the holocaust happened (you seem to imply it didn't).

& the whole idea behind the Arab spring is to destabilize, & fuel a massive civil war in the region after the withdrawal of the American troops, in order to give the "Israelies" the peace they're asking for.

The "whole idea" behind the Arab spring is that a lot of people are fed up with the systems of repression in their country. Israel and US involvement causes a lot of shit in the Middle East, but not every negative thing that happens there is because of them.

yea, but not the American pplz it was their government(sacrifices for the greater good) but i guarantee u it wasn't for the pplz good.

There is no evidence 9 11 was an inside job, it makes no sense whatsoever.

Actually, as a veteran of Iraq, I like to pride myself in the fact that I helped restore order to a nation that was under the sadistic and brutal control of one man who was living the the splendor of luxury as many of his own people starved without the benefit of basic social services... Not to mention the fact that he was also committing racial genocide in that very country.... 

If that is "messing with people's lives", then sign me up for more....

Really killing more than 1 million Iraqi is some thing to be proud about....
& Just so you know, you have no right to paint other peoples future, it's just not of your business, Iraq was a very advanced country, now it's 50 years late comparing to neighboring countries , & US gov is still stealing the country's oil.

I can understand you're proud of the fact you helped restore stablility. But still, the US didn't invade Iraq for the reason of disposing Saddam Hussein. They did it because Iraq was out of their control, there is no such things as "humanitarian intervention".

I wouldn't have called Iraq under Saddam advanced either, you would need a couple of pages to cite the atrocities he committed in Iraq.

The U.S. caused a huge mess in the middle east post-WW2. Saddam Hussein even worked for the CIA at one point. The dual wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are essentially the U.S. trying to get penance and fix their wrongs. They backed a lot of lunatic extremists and provided them with funding, food, and weapons. This caused a lot of hardship and instability in the whole region. Now they're fighting the very people they backed. The end does not justify the means. The soviets weren't that big of a "threat" to justify the stupidity of these actions. Applause goes to the U.S. for creating the mess they're trying to clean up now. :o

Yeah, the US made a mess of it, but in the end they just need the resources of the Middle East. They use far more resources than they own themselves.

Do you think it would be justifiable for the U.S. to invade every single country in the world occupied by a dictator and usurp the regime?

You have a point there, but wars and international politics are never about justice. It's just human nature, you know, kill or be killed, command and conquer.

[Masterful1]

Ok... Last time I post in this thread, and not in response to specific things said here.  I am not going to waste time arguing with those who have not been there, seen it, lived it, EXPERIENCED it...  Most of the responses sound like a college students opion paper carrying over into this medium.  If you didn't have what it takes to serve, in my honest opinion, you don't get to tell me what MY service meant to me.  I was a grunt, pure and simple.  I wasn't involved in the politics of the greater arena.  I was an enlisted infantry soldier, period.  I followed orders.  I helped when I could.  I killed when I HAD to.  I showed compassion whenever the opportunity presented itself.  And I met some of the truly nicest people that I have EVER met in my life over there.  TRUE Islam is about compassion and understanding, not judgement, Jihad, or hate.  Extremists take their agendas and fool a mostly undeducated population into doing their dirty work and sacrificing themselves.  I have SEEN it.  What have you done, other than watch some videos, look at some pictures, and read a few articles?  I did what you were either unable or unwilling to do.  I CHOOSE to view what I did positively because I tried to make a difference to those people.  I helped deliver medical supplies to hospitals, visit children in schools and help with English or LEARN Arabic from them, tend wounded civilians caught in the blast of the bombs of THEIR OWN people, console the families of the ones lost, sharing their tears and wishing that I could undo it.  You have NO FUCKING IDEA what is like because you pass judgement from afar without having done it and ASSUME that what I did there was some unholy, evil series of acts, all conspired to a grand evil design.  If you wish to view the whole scheme of the politics there, and blame every single soldier that is a part of it, then you CHOOSE to view these things in a negative way.  I tried to help when I could.  But, when I had to, I caused death to those trying to harm me or my fellow soldiers, and even when they tried to harm any innocent in their path.  I'm here, they aren't.  It was my life or theirs.  I'm still here talking.  And if you think that doesn't affect me and my family in its own way, your ignorance still shows.  Fuck each and every one of you that thinks I am evil because I was a part of the conflict.  I know better, and it saddens me that people still have no idea what they say and how it affects veterans like myself.    ~ Sgt. Cook  B Co 2/3 Inf, 3rd SBCT, 2nd ID

Ok... Last time I post in this thread, and not in response to specific things said here.  I am not going to waste time arguing with those who have not been there, seen it, lived it, EXPERIENCED it...  Most of the responses sound like a college students opion paper carrying over into this medium.  If you didn't have what it takes to serve, in my honest opinion, you don't get to tell me what MY service meant to me.  I was a grunt, pure and simple.  I wasn't involved in the politics of the greater arena.  I was an enlisted infantry soldier, period.  I followed orders.  I helped when I could.  I killed when I HAD to.  I showed compassion whenever the opportunity presented itself.  And I met some of the truly nicest people that I have EVER met in my life over there.  TRUE Islam is about compassion and understanding, not judgement, Jihad, or hate.  Extremists take their agendas and fool a mostly undeducated population into doing their dirty work and sacrificing themselves.  I have SEEN it.  What have you done, other than watch some videos, look at some pictures, and read a few articles?  I did what you were either unable or unwilling to do.  I CHOOSE to view what I did positively because I tried to make a difference to those people.  I helped deliver medical supplies to hospitals, visit children in schools and help with English or LEARN Arabic from them, tend wounded civilians caught in the blast of the bombs of THEIR OWN people, console the families of the ones lost, sharing their tears and wishing that I could undo it.  You have NO FUCKING IDEA what is like because you pass judgement from afar without having done it and ASSUME that what I did there was some unholy, evil series of acts, all conspired to a grand evil design.  If you wish to view the whole scheme of the politics there, and blame every single soldier that is a part of it, then you CHOOSE to view these things in a negative way.  I tried to help when I could.  But, when I had to, I caused death to those trying to harm me or my fellow soldiers, and even when they tried to harm any innocent in their path.  I'm here, they aren't.  It was my life or theirs.  I'm still here talking.  And if you think that doesn't affect me and my family in its own way, your ignorance still shows.  Fuck each and every one of you that thinks I am evil because I was a part of the conflict.  I know better, and it saddens me that people still have no idea what they say and how it affects veterans like myself.    ~ Sgt. Cook  B Co 2/3 Inf, 3rd SBCT, 2nd ID

The bolded sentence isn't true. No one here blamed you for anything we were talking about, we were all talking about the grand scheme of things, not individual soldiers. That said, there are many war crimes committed in Iraq and Afghanistan by US Soldiers (and sometimes even whole squadrons as that one that posted videos on the internet and was proven guilty not very long ago) and it would be foolish to assume otherwise.

Ok... Last time I post in this thread, and not in response to specific things said here.  I am not going to waste time arguing with those who have not been there, seen it, lived it, EXPERIENCED it...  Most of the responses sound like a college students opion paper carrying over into this medium. 
Most of the responses ARE people's opinions, just like your responses have been made up of your opinions.

Just because you have fought in a war, doesn't mean that you alone are justified to give your opinion on that war.

If you didn't have what it takes to serve, in my honest opinion, you don't get to tell me what MY service meant to me.

I haven't seen anyone try and tell you what your service meant to you, and don't start calling everyone who has not fought in the war a coward.

I was a grunt, pure and simple.  I wasn't involved in the politics of the greater arena.  I was an enlisted infantry soldier, period.  I followed orders.  I helped when I could.  I killed when I HAD to.  I showed compassion whenever the opportunity presented itself.  And I met some of the truly nicest people that I have EVER met in my life over there. 

I don't think that anyone was criticizing you personally (I know I wasn't), I think that some of us have been criticizing some american politicians.

TRUE Islam is about compassion and understanding, not judgement, Jihad, or hate.  Extremists take their agendas and fool a mostly undeducated population into doing their dirty work and sacrificing themselves.  I have SEEN it.

Maybe so.

What have you done, other than watch some videos, look at some pictures, and read a few articles?  I did what you were either unable or unwilling to do.

No, not everyone agrees with the war, and many do not want to be involved, that does not make them cowards.

I CHOOSE to view what I did positively because I tried to make a difference to those people.  I helped deliver medical supplies to hospitals, visit children in schools and help with English or LEARN Arabic from them, tend wounded civilians caught in the blast of the bombs of THEIR OWN people, console the families of the ones lost, sharing their tears and wishing that I could undo it.

I don't think people are questioning your morals. As I said, it's a criticism of American government.

You have NO FUCKING IDEA what is like because you pass judgement from afar without having done it and ASSUME that what I did there was some unholy, evil series of acts, all conspired to a grand evil design.

Who's saying that?

And if you think that doesn't affect me and my family in its own way, your ignorance still shows.  Fuck each and every one of you that thinks I am evil because I was a part of the conflict.

Honestly, it's like you are arguing against points that haven't been made. Peace.

[M. Bison]

I think he was defending himself from the two Syrians over there.  :o

I think he was defending himself from the two Syrians over there.  :o

Really? It seemed more like a combination to me.
I mean with the "If you didn't have what it takes to serve, in my honest opinion, you don't get to tell me what MY service meant to me. " and "I did what you were either unable or unwilling to do." There seemed to be an implication that he was talking to people "fighting" on the side of the Americans.

I don't know who you were talking about. I didn't judge anyone, and certainly don't see people as 'evil'.
I just stated the dry facts, plain and simple without judging.
One of my best friends is in Afghanistan right now, he'll still be one of 'em when he gets back.

I think he was defending himself from the two Syrians over there.  :o

Lol.

[Masterful1]

If you didn't have what it takes to serve, in my honest opinion, you don't get to tell me what MY service meant to me.

I haven't seen anyone try and tell you what your service meant to you, and don't start calling everyone who has not fought in the war a coward.

Don't put words in my mouth.  The word coward was never used, nor was it implied.  If you CHOOSE to take it that way, that's on you....