[pTK]

Leaky... I can't believe I am actually reading this.

Philosophy is such a broad topic that it makes you very ignorant for saying the shit you are saying.

Have you ever heard of any of these things:

Logic
Society
Free Will
Happiness
Ethics
Language

SCIENCE. 

No philosophy --- No science.

If you need an example, I will give you the most basic one possible.  How does one come up with a hypothesis and turn it into a theory??  BY USING DEDUCTION. Deduction is a tool of logic. Logic is a part of philosophy. 

Please, stay on the topic of God and Religion. You were at least heading in the right direction in that area.

I don't think there is much need for philosophy in this day, because science is way more advanced than it was. But back in Ancient Greece, philosophers were akin to our modern day geniuses. Most people just accepted certain things, such as the Earth being the centre of the universe or the Earth being flat. But philosophers thought about stuff, then did experiments to determine if these claims were true. So technically, philosophers were the original scientists.

Also "cogito ergo sum" is a self fulfilling thing. It just roughly means that if you're thinking about if you exist or not, then you've answered your own question, as something is thinking if you exist or not. So there is SOMETHING there to process the thought.

This is getting way too many replies for something that's been admitted to be a troll topic :/

[Leaky]

science isn't dependent on philosophy, that's just the method we used to arrive at science. philosophy wouldn't have been necessary if religion didn't exist.


free will and happiness aren't derived from philosophy, philosophy was an attempt at understanding those kinds of things, not creating them. religion was an alternative justification for them.


ethics don't actually exist, it's a changing set of rules based on environment, situation and times. again, not necessary to have philosophical studies to have ethics or morals. i don't need to sit down and have a philosophical debate about whether or not to kill someone, i just make a spur of the moment decision based on raised instinct. also i can't believe you fucking put language down as something that came from philosophy, language existed long before philosophy, it's actual something we EVOLVED to have. there's an entire section of our brain dedicated to language, and that section of the brain sprung up before philosophy.


science is in no way related to philosophy. the only reason you're putting that is because the first scientists were also philosophers, and that's because there was no science back in those days. the parts of an atom are not a philosophical conundrum.


philosophy: The study of the fundamental nature of knowledge, reality, and existence, esp. when considered as an academic discipline.


science: systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation.


the very key difference between those is the process. if all we did was philosophy, nothing would ever get done. science is a system of experimentation and counter experimentation and continuing experimentation to ensure what we know to be true always holds up to be true, and what we believe to be true based on verifiable evidence can be tested and shown to match or not match our hypothesis.


this is where you say oh well without philosophy you couldn't have a theory or hypothesis, but if that's your argument then without philosophy you don't have thought. i refuse to give philosophy such a grand and broad definition that anything pertaining to though counts as philosophy. nothing is that broad.

[_RemiX]

I don't think there is much need for philosophy in this day, because science is way more advanced than it was. But back in Ancient Greece, philosophers were akin to our modern day geniuses. Most people just accepted certain things, such as the Earth being the centre of the universe or the Earth being flat. But philosophers thought about stuff, then did experiments to determine if these claims were true. So technically, philosophers were the original scientists.

Also "cogito ergo sum" is a self fulfilling thing. It just roughly means that if you're thinking about if you exist or not, then you've answered your own question, as something is thinking if you exist or not. So there is SOMETHING there to process the thought.

This is getting way too many replies for something that's been admitted to be a troll topic :/

Don't hate, let them speak. Troll thread is epic thread tbh.

[pTK]

Ima go shoot myself.  Philosophy is the fucking essence of logic.    The original scientists were the greatest philosophers ever. Plato, Aristotle, Socrates.  Without Philosophy, Science would not exist.  Philosophy, shaped and STILL shapes politics nowadays. You can find philosophy in many sciences.  Sociology, Psychology and Political Science are three that were originally Philosophy but split from it because of their vast genres. You use philosophy on an every day basis and you probably don't even realize it because you are too naive. Politicians use Philosophy mixed with Psychology to manipulate you into acting or behaving the way they want. (Google Philosophical Fallacies, You will be suprised how many of those you use in your arguements)  Philosophy is deeply intergrated with out society. You learn it from birth and are socialized into understanding a basic form of it thinking that, that is just 'YOU' or who 'YOU' are. (ProTip: It's not)  Our way of thinking is so much different from the past all thanks to philosophy. Your sciences, experiments must be deemed ethical. How do you decide if something is ethical or not? Through heavy philosophical discussion. It's a shame that advanced philosophy isn't taught in schools. I mean, you learn parts of it by living your life and think thats just the way life is, but it isn't. That is philosophy at work.




For Example, What is to stop from finding out where you live and murdering you because I disagree with you?      (If you say Science I WILL find your house and Slap you.)


If all we ever did was science, No good would come of it.  What good is Science by iteself?       

Also, No fucking shit that shit existed before Philosophy. Pointless points are pointless. Try to understand what I am saying.  Language is a very key part of Philosophy for multitudes of reasons. For example, take the meanings of words. We could spend hours just talking about that one thing. 

^ I think maybe if you spent a bit of time learning some philosophy you would realize that words can have multiple meanings. Because you make a point "also i can't believe you fucking put language down as something that came from philosophy"  Which is just ridiculous. Learn to read. Find me one spot that I say Language was created by philosophy.    Kthx.  I merely stated that all those were things are a part of Philosophy, wether originally discovered by Philosophy or merely understood better with the help of philosophy.

The atom existed before scientists discovered it. Scientists don't create anything, they just discover ways to manipulate matter in which noone has done before but have always been possible under the correct circumstances, AND they discover information previously unknown but always present to the human population. Science is useless according to your logic. Your logic is flawed. Study up on philosophy IMO

[Leaky]

god damn


philosophy is NOT the essence of logic, philosophy tries to utilize logic (very poorly) but it does not define logic.


also, i'll agree that sociology, psychology and political science are philosophy, i'll also say that they aren't real science as none of those fields follow the scientific method.


science has a process that must be followed, philosophy is free form and devoid of any real process or standards. if philosophy were the essence of science then science wouldn't exist, it might as well be religion where you just make crap up and throw it at a wall and everyone believes it.


also, what is to stop you from finding me and murdering me? absolutely nothing, especially not philosophy. internet murders happen. and to say philosophy is some sort of mythical shield is naive. philosophy and ethics don't prevent anything, and ethics is widely different from person to person. ethics doesn't mean anything, it's just a set of arbitrary rules that people assume are right. at one point in time canabilism was deemed ethical, in some tribes it's still ethical. in some parts of the world it's ethical to oppress entire castes of people, in others it's ethical to slowly turn the nation into sheeple using misinformation. i'd hardly say philosophical discussion is driving those ethics, nor would i say it's improving anyones lives.


it was your philosophical debates that deemed cloning of human cells unethical, despite the massive improvements to the medical industry it could have. if we weren't driving our ethics by your silly subjective debates and instead driving them by raw data as the scientific method dictates then the world would have advanced by leaps and bounds by now, we might even have colonies in space. hell maybe we could rid our selves of religious war and turmoil even. but no, we have people who think the world revolves around philosophical debates and pointless ideas based on their own personal bias running the show. science is superior to philosophy in every way because it is unbias raw data. to say philosophy is the root of science is wrong, if anything philosophy is the mutated mentally challenged cousin of science.

[pTK]

You realize how hypocritical you are. You entered this thread planning on debating with religiost nuttjobs that look the otherway when facts are thrown in their face. Then you yourself look away from facts thrown in your face. You are a disgrace to Science. Stop advocating it because it is doing fine without you.

I'm done with this conversation because this will go back and forth forever. I'm not attacking science or trying to prove anything against science. All im trying to do is explain to you why Philosophy is not worthless. I personally love science and enjoy our technological advances. But you are highly incorect when saying Philosophy is filth. The true filth is your inability to see another persons point, other than how to counter another persons arguement with an alternate hypothesis.   

This discussion has turned into me attempting to persuade you into seeing my point with logic and reason, and you closing your eyes, covering your ears screaming NANANANANANANA  and throwing science at me in an attempt to defend your views.  Science and Philosophy work together. Deal with it.

[Leaky]

i accept your defeat.


and i'm not a hypocrite, you have not presented me with any verifiable fact just your opinion on how philosophy and science work together, which you are entitled to have. but i do not agree, i believe they are fundamentally different, science has a rigid structure and process that must be adhered to, where as philosophy is free form thought and ideas. the closest you'd get to that in science is theoretical physics but even that isn't as free form as it sounds, the theories they work on are founded in math which someone later proves. in modern day terms, all of the philosophers you named were theoretical physicists as well as philosophers, but scientists these days don't follow the same thought process as the people back in those times, everything has changed. you're either experimenting and analyzing data or you're examining unknown principles and coming up with a mathematical proof that makes sense, none of that is as free form as philosophy.


and i apologize for calling philosophy filth. it's just not a discipline i value highly. given a different past, i can see science springing up in any number of ways that don't revolve around philosophers. and in a world devoid of emotion, where there is nothing but cold hard logic and data analysis, i can't imagine philosophy is any way relevant because it doesn't revolve around the study of verifiable data, it revolves around thinking about stuff.


we'll agree to disagree.


but i think everyone here agrees that religion is stupid and ruins the world.

[pTK]

I admit defeat.  I have failed you.  My patience for your ignorance is at its limit.  Maybe another time.

[_RemiX]

SUCCESS! Finally Troll thread does what was intended. For those of you who don't know what was intended ill tell you. Troll the shit outa someone till they rage.